Getting divorced at any time is personal challenge, but after many years with a spouse, it's about finding out who you really are, and how you approach the world as a solo person. This episode of the Modern Divorce Podcast is a good-for-the-soul exploration of the things that happen when two people divorce following a longterm marriage and how to rebuild one's personal life.
Modern Divorce host Billie Tarascio, family law attorney, talks with divorce coach Raven of YourNextChapter.com who herself suffered a divorce as a 60-something woman. Raven shares her personal stories and tips, with a frank discussion about how to put yourself back together again after a big breakup.
Getting divorced at any time is personal challenge, but after many years with a spouse, it's about finding out who you really are, and how you approach the world as a solo person. This episode of the Modern Divorce Podcast is a good-for-the-soul exploration of the things that happen when two people divorce following a longterm marriage and how to rebuild one's personal life.
Modern Divorce host Billie Tarascio, family law attorney, talks with divorce coach Raven of YourNextChapter.com who herself suffered a divorce as a 60-something woman. Raven shares her personal stories and tips, with a frank discussion about how to put yourself back together again after a big breakup.
Billie Tarascio: [00:00:00] Hi there. It's Billie Tarascio with the modern divorce podcast. And I am here with Raven. So excited about this episode. It's going to be a little bit different than a lot of the other episodes that I've had. And Raven is a very special guest and we're going to be talking about divorcing later in life and rebuilding and Raven, tell me a little bit about your background.
Raven: [00:00:49] Well, I am, uh, professionally, historically a coach for the last 20 years. And. And was so coaching solo entrepreneurs. And then I started to go through my own divorce process and I'm in my sixties. Is this, this recognition of it was our marriage. My marriage was done after being with this person for 23 years, uh, was both exciting.
Like, oh, like there's more to me. And that's really what it was. Neither one of us are abusive there wasn't that kind of normal reason, but there was a, just have enough of a new change in both of us that it wasn't no longer a good match. And so I also recognize that. Having done this earlier in my life that the experience was different.
And I, I needed, I wanted to take this moment, this pause moment to really find out who am I without this need for relationship. Um, and, and then there also came these, but with that adventuresome, this that's actually, my natural spirit came a pile of fear at some point. And, I started to look at what is this?
And so I actually formed something called your chapter next, which is a project for women coming out of life, coming out of marriage later in life, because it's this great opportunity. But then there's also some, yeah. Things to deal with and friendship and navigating friendships and not in the empty nest at the same time.
And some women have been with, you know, there I've been talking to women, uh, who divorced their high school sweetheart. So they were in a relationship for 37 years. And sometimes there are still children. Around.
Billie Tarascio: [00:02:34] Yeah.
Raven: [00:02:35] But it's, it's just different because you're not having to, you're not having to tend to somebody else. All you have is yourself.
Billie Tarascio: [00:02:42] Sure. So instead of being the single mom or single dad, that's trying to figure out how I make it all work. Um, there's less distraction. It's really more about. Like who am I as a person? And it's so interesting, the timing of our interview, because Bill and Melinda Gates have just announced that they're getting divorcedand it's sending shockwaves through, society. And there's a lot of talk about this. Like why would somebody do that? Like, and, and it used to be that divorce sort of was avoided at all costs and seen as a real failure and something that you just really desperately wanted to avoid. And that is shifting, that is changing.
And so when you describe having some hope and some excitement, like that's something that I think a lot of women and men. share when they're facing the possibility of divorce.
Raven: [00:03:35] Yeah. So, because I think, you know, what, we, we all, I think we're all still influenced by the fairy tale, right? The magic, the happily ever after, even if we know it's crazy.
Billie Tarascio: [00:03:48] Right.
Raven: [00:03:49] Right. And so , you know, when I think about until death do us part, which is the vow, we always have it as physical death. But I think that, you know, in everything in life, there's a beginning and middle and end, and some people do get to the end of physical life together. But sometimes it's the end of it's the end of that chapter .
Billie Tarascio: [00:04:09] That's the interesting thingthat you say that because I went through a divorce and there's tremendous guilt and failure because you make these vows.
Raven: [00:04:20] Yes.
Billie Tarascio: [00:04:21] And you mean them, but it also, I find myself like adamantly opposed to ever getting married again, because I now know that like, you can't make that promise. You just can't. So you are not then opposed to this concept of Yeah. I mean, it's a, you know, it's a choice. I don't know if I will. You know, earlier in my life, like, yeah, I'm just going to find another one, you know? Um, but I'm, I'm talking to men and women, I doing a little online dating, which is interesting. Cause I don't even know. And the way I think I'm just exploring, well, where am I with this now?
Raven: [00:04:57] Um, but I'm talking to men and women who really, at this point later in life, don't know. If they will and what their, what is being sought is more of companionship perhaps. And there's not this drive. And I think hormones, by the way, still do, you know, hormones want us to couple up, there's this kind of this program.
But I also talking to younger women and I know that it's not even a universal there. You're not opposed to it, but I I'm, I guess my wish is to encourage people to take a pause moment. I took a year. I called it my reboot year,and just don't even, don't even look, look for that. Become your own best friend, because in a, I think in a couple , you know, theoretically, you're married to your best friend, right?
Ideally, and it is, or it isn't true. And then he figured that out, but, but it's almost like a Phantom limb. Right. Where's that? Where's that person. So you have to, it's a lot of readjustment to, well, no, what do I have to say even decision-making? Oh my goodness.
Billie Tarascio: [00:06:08] So I have a friend who just went through a breakup and she is describing, you know, losing her best friend and the loneliness that comes from now, no longer having this person to talk to all the time.
And, you know, she cannot wait to get back into a relationship, which makes sense, because you feel sort of less than whole. So, how is it that you advise people to, to get over that loneliness or deal with it?
Raven: [00:06:33] Well, it's, it's interesting. I, I do get that drive. I do understand that motivation. I just, I think it's potentially going to land us in, you know, land, somebody in that same place, maybe the choice of who is picked.
Is going to be rushed, maybe that, you know, you don't take your time. And so for me, I think the opportunity is to get to know who you are without that. And it's not comfortable. I, I mean, truthfully, I think I cried every day for two or three years, starting when I was still living with my husband, but I knew it.
I woke up. In a frowny face. Like I have lines on my face now, but I also, that I did not have when this started, because I, you know, I've been like this and I'm a certain age and lines happen, but even yesterday, so there's something like now if I, if I, if my energy goes out, In a way that to distract me or to take the off path, I recognize my home space, if that makes sense.
So last couple of days, I had some things happen that, um, I kind of got myself in some hot water that I had to backtrack out of. And when it, when I finally decided that side is some things communicated, some things and just got back with myself. It was good. And I, that takes time. That's not an overnight thing.
Billie Tarascio: [00:07:57] Right.
Raven: [00:07:58] So I guess counsel would be, yes, it's hard. I also think in a way marriage creates this dilemma of reliance on somebody that not, it's never permanent. I mean, death takes people away. There's all sorts of things. So it's just, it's an, it's an unraveling process.
Well, let's talk about that. One of the things that you, talk about is unraveling the fairytale and rebuilding your life, picking new friends, figuring out who you are.
And so you know, for people who are just going through this process, how they can understand what you're saying, you know, they need to get to know themselves, but how.
Right. Well, that's a really great question. So I've done a lot of journaling. I have, I think, six journals now. That's one way every morning I journal.
I see what I have to say. Sometimes I'm just complaining about the day. Um,
Billie Tarascio: [00:08:58] What I love so much about that is that as truly becoming your own best friend, it's maybe what you would have said to somebody beforehand, if you weren't, if you had that person standing next to you, you would just talk out loud and instead you're talking to yourself, you're you're you were confiding in yourself by journaling.
So I just really love.
Raven: [00:09:15] Yeah. And you know, you can confide to yourself or you can, I mean, if you have a. A connection with God. Let's say you can write in that direction. It's not that that's, you know, I write to all it is whatever that means. Um, and then one day, yeah, I'm not going to go into that. I got some really, I I've got some really good feedback.
It's almost like you access your higher self. So sometimes I have turned it over. It's like, all right, here's my thing. What do you, whatever that means, have to say, right? And then it's like, Oh, Cool.
Billie Tarascio: [00:09:48] Yeah. And maybe you're tapping into that inner wisdom or maybe you're getting, you know, who knows? I don't know.
Maybe your grandmother from up above is, is giving you messaging or God is speaking to you, but some way when you give that space and time and, and, and, and write it down or speak it out loud, like you're, you're allowing yourself to find that maybe inner wisdom.
Yeah. Yeah.
Raven: [00:10:11] And then so on the, you know, the realm of friendships, I mean, those do change.
You know, there are a couple of friends, there are, they were perhaps friends when you ha you know, with children like the, the, the mothers and children and whatnot, but most of that is going to change. And so in that way, it's another opportunity. I mean, we have all these, we have this really weird pandemic time, of course, right now, where we're also all in a way being thrown into our own space.
Billie Tarascio: [00:10:41] Right.
Raven: [00:10:42] And so it, it's similar to what you're going. What were, what one goes through coming out of marriage with an empty desk? We've all been kind of sequestered. Many have been sequestered to their homes away from family and away from friends. So we have these other mediums too, to connect.
I don't like them, but I've done pretty well with staying in touch with people. Um, In person at times, but there, there are ways to find out who you are. And I would say just an as example, um, You have to be still long enough. I mean, I don't innately have hobbies. Some people are hobbyists and that's really good, but I'm not innately a hobbyist.
I'm a writer. And I talk to people, I mean, that's my I'm human. I have human interests. Um, but I just it's like, well, how can I get myself out if I don't have anybody to play with. Right now I have two, I have one go-to that's always true when they're open, where I live now in Portland, they're been on and off open and closed, but I go to a cafe in the day.
I don't necessarily talk to people, but I put myself around people.
Billie Tarascio: [00:11:49] Sure. That's it. That's a great idea. You know, maybe simply being around people, it gives you energy. Now, one of the questions I have for you is do you think that people should fight or really work to keep the friendships that they built while they were married, or do you think it's better to seek out new friendships?
Raven: [00:12:09] I don't know that it's better one way or the other. I think it happens naturally. So I, I do still have friends from when I was married. They, but they were my friends anyway. And not all have lasted. I mean, when you go through a change like this. You're going to change and I think couldn't say a year ago when I was still living in Arizona, I just remember sitting in my house going, Oh my God, my world is peeling away, but then new people can come in too.
So I'm never really without friends. And so to the question. It's a little bit of both. I mean, if you're in the world, you know, when you go to a job, you make friends. If you join some kind of an online group, which is what people are doing these days, you're going to connect with people. So I don't think, I don't think there's any rules.
Billie Tarascio: [00:13:05] Okay.
Raven: [00:13:05] And, um, once in a while, I mean, I. I'm still friendly with my almost ex we're actually filing this month so I can still call them, man. Right. It's like, but no, he shouldn't be that person.
Like, who else can I call? And I got, like I said earlier, I got into some hot water yesterday and I was freaking out. I was like, where are my friends? Who can I call? Okay. She said, I could text her this week. So also being able to find allies when you need them is really important when you don't have the person to count on your friend network becomes your family in a different way, but they are, but they're not a hundred percent committed to you at all times.
Billie Tarascio: [00:13:48] Right. Right. Right.
Raven: [00:13:50] So, so it's like, well, who could I call that? Could help me with this.
Billie Tarascio: [00:13:55] Yeah.
Raven: [00:13:56] And then taking that step for me, it's really hard.
Billie Tarascio: [00:13:59] Because you have to put yourself out
there and ask for help.
Raven: [00:14:02] And yeah. When I'm feeling uncomfortable with myself, but that's what friends are for, as they say, I think that's a song line.
Billie Tarascio: [00:14:11] You're you're so right. And being vulnerable with people, even friends, you know, is one of the best ways to create an intimate friendship asking for help being vulnerable. And so you're saying like many of us have the ability to call our exes.
Raven: [00:14:28] Some do. I mean, I don't know universally, but yes, there is that ability.
Billie Tarascio: [00:14:32] Many people have, I think, and not everybody, but many do.
And it's such an easy crutch. Um, I have somebody that I know that was married and has been divorced for, I think, seven years. And she recently declared that she had ended a toxic relationship for the first time, even though she was already divorced because her ex husband continued to be her person, a person that would fix things, her person that would pick her up her person, you know?
And so that can be a very dangerous, um, relationship if you don't truly end it.
Raven: [00:15:07] Yeah. In a way, yes. It can limit you from moving forward and, you know, finding others. Instead, but then I think of Gwyneth Paltrow. I mean, I don't know, I haven't actually tuned into what Melinda and bill Gates are up to, but she went on a honeymoon with her former husband.
With her new husband with her children . I mean, so there's lots of,
Billie Tarascio: [00:15:32] can you explain this to me? I knew she got remarried, so, okay. So she was married to Coldplay singer. I don't remember his name, but he's amazing. Um, they had a couple of kids, they got divorced. Then she got remarried. I don't remember to who. And you're saying when she went on the husband, the honeymoon with the new husband, she brought the ex-husband and the kids.
Raven: [00:15:52] And his wife. Yeah, the ex-husband's wife too. So yes. So the truth is there are no rules.
Billie Tarascio: [00:15:59] It doesn't seem much like a honeymoon.
It's a little crazy, but it's, it's true. Like, you know, there are really no rules. If you're just checking into yourself and kind of understanding, does this serve me?
Raven: [00:16:13] Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So yesterday I really was going to pick up that phone and I just said to myself, no, you can't keep going to him.
You've said, he's not, we, we have an agreement, we'll be friends and family, but that's going to shift. And so I just. So I like, I texted a friend, who's been a friend for a couple of years, and then I have new friends here and I said, I'm going to actually, cause my, one of my issue was a housing and I'm looking for a new place.
So I also decided to reach out to somebody here who I've met in person once. But she said, reach out to me when you need to. And I did, and then they both got back to me and it was awesome. So I didn't have to go down that old familiar route and probably got better help give them what I needed help with.
Sure.
Billie Tarascio: [00:17:00] That's great. That's a, that's a great, um, message because it's, it's a small thing. You know, it's not a huge thing. It's not a new boyfriend or, uh, you know, I'm going to start over in a new place. It's just a, I have this problem and what are the different ways that I could solve it and who are the different people that I could access and how am I going to make a different choice?
So I just love that so much.
Raven: [00:17:23] Yeah. Yeah. Because, and there was this, so one of the men I've like met him twice and he has said, you know, if you get into these places, call me and I'm not calling him. We don't have that relationship. So, so I think it's, it's, you know, all of this for me is there aren't necessarily rules, but it really helps to pause and check in with yourself.
What is the motivation? What is the need? What are you trying to do? And what's the healthiest way. And our bodies are much more intelligent then these little brains that just, you know, want, you know, get crazy and they want to fix things, make things all better, really fast.
Billie Tarascio: [00:18:04] That's a really good point. So while rules generally don't serve us principles, I think generally do serve us.
So what would you say are the main principles people should keep in mind when going through this journey?
Raven: [00:18:26] I haven't thought of them in those words. So let's see. Or that in that frame framework, um,
Billie Tarascio: [00:18:32] you know, that's kind of an unfair question. So we don't have to...
Raven: [00:18:35] trial and error, give yourself a lot of permission to make mistakes, even in friendships. I mean, I'll just take the dating thing again. I, I been on. I think this is my fourth time in the last four months and I get on and I do what I need to do. And then it's like, oops, I don't think I'm ready. And that's what happened. So it's okay.
This is, I mean, when you're freeing yourself, especially after years of being with somebody, it's kinda like you're learning to walk all over again. So that would be one principle is to allow for that. Don't beat yourself up for that because. The mistakes are yours and there's something actually empowering about that.
Billie Tarascio: [00:19:20] Ooh,
Raven: [00:19:23] I learned that with a laptop. I lost. That was my mistake.
Billie Tarascio: [00:19:28] I really like that a lot. And I like the principle of forgive yourself because I know after my divorce, like. I was a little bit of a mess. Like, you know, I wasn't used to being the one that had, you know, he was more organized than I was. And so I wasn't, I didn't have all of the paperwork where it needed to be in all of the, all of the things that I hadn't ordered, new birth certificates for my kids and new social security cards.
And I needed it at some point and they made a big mistake and I didn't end up getting on a cruise that I had planned because I didn't have my. Proper paperwork, because normally, you know, in, in my relationship previously, like he would have handled it and it was a big mistake, but like, all you can do is realize it's not the only cruise I have to be.
I'm going to have to be more organized and a little bit more diligent about things . And that's okay.
Raven: [00:20:23] Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yes, exactly. And that's really that point that you just made is also an important one because when. When, you know, usually inside of a marriage that people end up in roles.
Billie Tarascio: [00:20:35] There's a division of duties.
Raven: [00:20:37] Division of duties. And that usually goes with, who's willing to do it if it's a trash or, um, you know, who has the skills to do it. So, yeah. And with again, that limb is gone. So, um,
Billie Tarascio: [00:20:51] So it's going to be messy.
Raven: [00:20:52] It's going to be messy and it's. Oh okay.
Billie Tarascio: [00:20:55] Yeah. Yeah. The other thing is like, when you're first going through a divorce, regardless of whether or not you're happy about it or sad about it, like your brain sort of fuzzy.
I remember like doing a lot of like losing my keys and just feeling really absent-minded and I'm not, I mean, I had companies to run and kids to take care of, but like, what can you do except for acknowledge it and kind of be gentle with yourself.
Raven: [00:21:19] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And did it take, I imagine it took some time to get to that place for you.
Billie Tarascio: [00:21:26] It took some time. Took, took some time to get my brain back.
Raven: [00:21:30] Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I remember more clearly in earlier, earlier voice, like almost feeling like I'd been punished. Mm. Like things were happening, but I don't know, maybe it was more about what you were. Saying, um, but that's not required.
Billie Tarascio: [00:21:52] Very interesting. So things were not going smoothly. You know, that's what I, uh, things did not go smoothly because the division of duties was gone and now there were, and my brain wasn't functioning because. That's what happens when you go through a massive, massive, massive change or trauma. And so everything's sort of falling apart kind of messy, like laundry, you know, messy.
Um, and so I can understand how somebody could interpret that as I'm being punished, or maybe this is the wrong idea for me. Maybe I should go back to this person. And so what would you counsel people to do or to think about during that time?
Raven: [00:22:33] Well on that particular piece and I do have another principal, but I'll get back to that.
Um, is, cause I've had that I think maybe five weeks ago, like, yeah, I just want to go back home. Like I had a really strong feeling just. Let me go back home. It's whatever out here. And I, and there's some sense, you know, sentimentalism and I, you know, I'm, I may be sad about this or that's my advice, or maybe I won't, but, um, I just have to keep going back to why are we not together anymore?
what was it? And for us, it was really just two things where we have an in compatibility that is not reconcilable. Right. And so, no, that's not the home anymore. This is the home.
Billie Tarascio: [00:23:23] Yeah.
Raven: [00:23:24] Just, I, you know, and even, you know, speaking of homes, there's some, I've certainly experienced joy of what I have in my home.
Now, for the most part I brought in.
Billie Tarascio: [00:23:35] Sure.
Raven: [00:23:36] It's my, this home reflects me. And so that's another thing is to make your home your home. I mean, my stuff is weird. I'm not, I'm not moderate. I'm not fancy. I just bring in what I like. And then I look and you can see behind me. I mean, I love that corner right there.
Billie Tarascio: [00:23:56] It's cute.
Raven: [00:23:57] But the light and then salt lamp and yeah, so there's way. So I think, but that the bottom, then you're getting back to a restating. It is look and see what was it? And is that, is it still valid? Because if it is you don't, you don't want to mess with going back. It's it's nasty stuff. I mean, I've, you know, I know of couples that maybe there's still an attraction.
Billie Tarascio: [00:24:21] Sure. Yeah.
Raven: [00:24:23] And then they get together. Right. It's not the answer.
Billie Tarascio: [00:24:28] Yeah. That's, that's a good point. It's a really good point. And I think it's also hard for people to know when is my relationship one where we should get back together. There's more good than bad and we just need to work some things out.
And when is it truly not good for me? And that I don't, I don't know how
to answer that.
Raven: [00:24:52] Yeah. Well, yeah, so I don't either. It's it's um, I guess. Yeah. So far, any, anytime there's been a split with somebody it's really supposed to be that way. Right. I mean, I've heard of couples getting back together. I've seen it, but they've also seen couples marry each other four times.
Billie Tarascio: [00:25:12] It happens. Way more than you would. I think, I think I read somewhere that like, I could be getting this wrong, but I think it's something like six or 9% of, of people who get divorced remarry. Mm. Mm. It's high., it's a lot of people. and then those people sometimes go on to get divorced again.
Raven: [00:25:35] Try without the marriage. I mean, you know, there's a lot of emphasis placed on what marriage means, commitment. That's what it means. I commit to you, you commit to me it's us. Right. But you can do that without. That formal agreement as well.
I agree with you. I don't, I, you know, I tend to feel a little cynical at this point and maybe it's because I've gone through divorce and I'm a divorce attorney and part of me is just like, why.
Billie Tarascio: [00:26:02] But there's a lot of reasons why there really are. Um, and it's, I suppose, just important to weigh those and check in with your body. Like when everything's falling apart, when you feel like your life's a disaster, check in and, and, wonder, you know, do I want to go home because I'm. I'm comfortable or do I want to go home because that's where I'm supposed to be and what is my, what is my long-term look like?
Raven: [00:26:29] Yeah, yeah. And then you get to, again, you can make a mistake that way and it's okay. The, the other principle, or, you know, just to give it that context, um, that I recognize is when you are on your own. And I mean, when you have children, it's a little bit different. But you don't ha you, you only have a limited amount of energy capacity in a day.
It's true for all of us, but without having that other person to lean on in a way you are more vulnerable to the world.
Billie Tarascio: [00:27:03] Yeah.
Raven: [00:27:03] Which is not a bad thing. but I learned you have to be, you're going to learn to be more and more aware of who takes you off your center. And who just as joyous to be around.
And I, I think there's, it's not, and I don't know if this is age, I can not tell you that part, but cause I, you know, had a kid and I had this whole, whole other life earlier, but give yourself space. I mean, some people get super busy to kind of distract themselves. Uh, But I think it, you know, at some point you're going to have to deal with being solo and whatever feelings you have about the ending of your marriage and build in that space around yourself.
Billie Tarascio: [00:27:51] Okay. Um, I am just writing down what I think the principles are and then you can tell me what,
Raven: [00:27:58] okay.
Billie Tarascio: [00:27:59] all right. This is what I've taken away from what you've said. Number one, forgive yourself and go easy on yourself. Make mistakes, use trial and error. Number two, design your space, which I think is such a great practical, um, Way to manifest, like becoming and choosing and acknowledging who you are.
So I just love that one, um, three check in with your body. Sometimes your body will tell you things that your mind doesn't, and I don't know, we can come back to that one. Cause I don't know that we really truly explored that, but I really like it. Number four, journal or talk to yourself and somehow become your own best friend.
And then five, I think is kind of, um, related, you know, give yourself time and space. Don't fill up your daily capacity with things to distract.
Raven: [00:28:58] Yeah. Time and space. And then also the vulnerability part, like being be it's about boundaries, essentially be aware. To give you a really crazy example, but, Okay. I'm gonna do this.
Billie Tarascio: [00:29:10] You should. Yes. We're real here , you're on the modern divorce podcast.
Raven: [00:29:16] Um, My, I have a difficult relationship with my parents and they quite like my former spouse and when we were still together and even, I think once after we were going to tell them, but we decided not to that trip.
I very much made a decision to when I visited them, I was like, Oh, just bring him along. And he was like, my buffer. I mean, literally was my shield because he could engage with them and then I could just sit back and they weren't, they thought they were happy. I was there, but they, you know, I didn't have to actually be front and center.
So, now that it's just me, I even there, I'm careful about when I make contact, I have to be in good shape. So now that's just my family situation, but I can, I'll take that and transpose it to all interactions. You don't have, I don't you can afford to be taken off your center, if it's just you, because who's going to take care of the dishes.
Who's going to cook for you. Like, Hey, you can get, take out, but,
Billie Tarascio: [00:30:16] You have to be more, you know know, careful and more protective of your emotions and your mental health. Yes, that's good.
Raven: [00:30:22] Yeah. And, I I'll just share this and this is what I mean, this was again my family, but I remember some man in some networking group that had nothing to do with this.
And I don't call my mother unless I'm at an eight. So if there are people that you do need to interact with, don't do it when you're a three, just wait, it'll be there. And, and, you know, things will shift and that's okay. Yeah.
Billie Tarascio: [00:30:44] let's go back to check in with your body. How can people do that?
Raven: [00:30:48] Well, people are familiar with gut. This is, you know, what does your gut say? I mean, I'm thinking about yesterday. Where's the relaxation. Like if like I, if you're stressed, then something's off. Now it could be you're nervous. Like I was a little bit for this, but that's not the deal it's but if there's any kind of stress and you're feeling heightened anxiety, then check back in with your body.
I see, I, I mean, I actually, I'm trained all in a whole technology that helps people know where that authority is. It's called human design for me. It's my, you know, it's an intuitive response to, what's healthy for me now. And my mind can take me out of that. My mind could lead me down some garden paths that are not right.
So then I have to come back and just see, how does it, how is it here is for a lot of peoples, how does it feel? Does it feel right? Does it feel good? Does it feel? Not so good. And if it's not so good or you're in the questionmark, wait, it's a no, until it said yes. So I was, I'm trying to get out of my, go ahead.
Billie Tarascio: [00:31:51] I think that that is especially instructive when you're finding new relationships, either with friends or with a potential significant other, like there's sometimes when you can feel butterflies and you can really like being around somebody, but then when you're not around them, you just feel like, where do I stand?
Or I don't feel good. Why aren't they texting me back?
And that is a really good indication. That it's not right.
Raven: [00:32:20] You're right about that. I learned that one the hard way. Yes. Yeah. Like, yeah. It's not the, yeah. That It's more like addiction related then truth.
Billie Tarascio: [00:32:30] Right? Like, so when, in doubt, like you really want to err on the side of, um, calm, comfort, like peace versus excitement and chemistry and like electricity, like that is not probably as healthy if you're listening to your
body.
Raven: [00:32:54] Yeah. And, and take time. I mean, I know when I become friends with even just, you know, new female friends, I always have to go through this weird process of, Oh, I like this person.
And then the weird little doubts as if I'm dating them.
Billie Tarascio: [00:33:09] Right. I think this applies not just to romantic relationships, but also friend relationships. Like how do I feel around this person? Am I like, do I really want them to like me? Am I trying to impress them, or do we truly just connect?
Raven: [00:33:22] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then be willing to let go.
Billie Tarascio: [00:33:26] Yeah.
Raven: [00:33:27] You know, and I've, I've gone through that so many times and there's those moments it's like, Oh, there's no body, but people show up.
okay. Raven, this has been fantastic. We're almost out of time. Any last words of wisdom for people going through divorce on how they can move on or tips to keep them saying,
Hmm, I don't, I don't have anything nothing's coming to mind.
I'll probably think of it, you know, five minutes after we're done, but I do. I just wouldn't want it to say I've, I've written, um, ebook about getting the help you need. Who can you rely on now and getting how to, how to think about the help you need both in the task world and the emotional world. Um, and it's just about finished, probably be finished by the time this goes out.
And so if it's a, it's a giveaway. Nice. It's very related to this. Like, how do you navigate your needs when it's you whomever your friends circle is so, um, they can go to yourchapternext.com and just subscribe to my newsletter.
Billie Tarascio: [00:34:36] Fantastic.
Raven: [00:34:37] Then you'll get a copy of it.
Billie Tarascio: [00:34:39] And how did people work with you as a coach?
Um, well, I have two programs, one they're very different. One is this kind of recuperative program called solo soaring. And it's a three-step process release. Really look at what conditioned you release the attachments to that, to the best of your ability. And then the next is reclaim, you know, who are you, let's see who you are.
And then the third step is revived. I calling it revive, which is like, you're, you're ready for takeoff. And you're feeling like that young person inside of you and your spirit returning and supporting that. And so that's that program. And then I have another one called make friends with money because many, not all women, but many women.
Haven't been part of the financial decision making. And I know this, I was so it's foreign to me, but it's just helping, helping women at this point. And if they want it to, they're going to ask, but creating a budget. But when you know, what's happening with your money and you can manage that, you can make all sorts of decisions for yourself, everything from your values to what you need and all that stuff.
So those are two ways to work with me.
Raven: [00:35:48] That's fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. And I, and I agree we could do an entire other podcast about money and the relationship between money post-divorce and why women are in worse shape than men and how to fix that. But we will save that for another day. Cool, Raven, thank you so much.
And I can't wait to talk to you again
soon. Thank you very much Billie. I enjoyed this. You too. Bye bye. Bye.