Maybe it was your teenager getting out of line, and an unfortunate shoving match ensued. Maybe it was you leaving the kids home alone when your ex thought it was too dangerous. Or maybe it was a parent possibly using drugs and another relative calls to make a report. All of these scenarios may prompt the state Department of Child Services to get involved, which may throw you or someone you know into a whole lotta trouble.
In this episode of the Modern Divorce Podcast, family law attorney Billie Tarascio talks with former Arizona DCS case worker and Modern Law staffer Vanessa Adams. As someone who visited homes and tried to put families back together again, she gives her important perspective of the process, and what you should know about what happens when someone reports a presumptive child abuse.
If you are not familiar with the process of investigating child abuse through a state agency, this episode is a must listen for anyone who has kids, or who has ever considered reporting child abuse.
Maybe it was your teenager getting out of line, and an unfortunate shoving match ensued. Maybe it was you leaving the kids home alone when your ex thought it was too dangerous. Or maybe it was a parent possibly using drugs and another relative calls to make a report. All of these scenarios may prompt the state Department of Child Services to get involved, which may throw you or someone you know into a whole lotta trouble.
In this episode of the Modern Divorce Podcast, family law attorney Billie Tarascio talks with former Arizona DCS case worker and Modern Law staffer Vanessa Adams. As someone who visited homes and tried to put families back together again, she gives her important perspective of the process, and what you should know about what happens when someone reports a presumptive child abuse.
If you are not familiar with the process of investigating child abuse through a state agency, this episode is a must listen for anyone who has kids, or who has ever considered reporting child abuse.
Billie Tarascio: [00:00:00] Hi there. It's Billie Tarascio with the Modern Divorce podcast today for another episode, with an internal team member here at Modern Law. This is Vanessa Adams, who is our newest team member. Hello, Vanessa.
Vanessa Adams: [00:00:42] Hi,
Billie Tarascio: [00:00:43] Vanessa is um, the legal assistant who is running our Peoria office, but that is not why I have asked her to be on the podcast. Before joining Modern Law vanessa worked in social work and has a lot of personal experience with DCS or the division of child services and many, many, many family law clients have DCS somehow involved in their case. Somebody made allegations or they have concerns for the, their children and they're making allegations. And so I'd love to get to know you a little bit more of Anessa, introduce you to everyone, and then learn a little bit about what you know about DCS.
Vanessa Adams: [00:01:21] Okay. So yeah, I did. I worked with the department of child safety for about a year and a half .
Billie Tarascio: [00:01:27] Department of Child safety. Thank you. It is so hard to get that acronym. Right. So thank you for saying that.
Vanessa Adams: [00:01:32] It is. A lot of people just keep referring it to as CPS. I worked there for about a year and a half and I was an ongoing case manager.
So when you first get a case, there you get an investigations case manager, and then once the case is opened and it's going to stay open, it goes to an ongoing case manager, which was me.
Billie Tarascio: [00:01:54] Okay, fantastic. Great. So for a year and a half, you were an ongoing case manager. And what did you do as an, as an ongoing case manager?
What was your job?
Vanessa Adams: [00:02:04] So there was a lot that you do. So first, when you first get a case, you start out by just introducing yourself to the family, getting to know them going over the assessments that the investigations did and you go to court right away. And you establish what services you're going to put in place based off the investigations and set up visitation. That's a big one is setting up that visitation right away so that there's no delay in the kids being removed from the home, but still being able to see their parents.
Billie Tarascio: [00:02:41] Okay. All right. So it's really great to get a perspective from somebody who is on the inside. Obviously CPS workers or employees or case managers get a terrible reputation as being people who
are incompetent and are overworked and don't care. And you know, basically it seems like the reputation is there's nothing you can do. Right. Did you feel like that as a, as a case manager?
Yes, I did
Vanessa Adams: [00:03:11] feel that way a lot just because I feel like one bad Apple might. Kind of like tarnish the batch, but also you're working under so many constraints.
So there's DCS policy that you have to work under, but you're also working under the orders of the court. And while the court says, okay, you have to have these visitations in place. You put in as a case manager, you put in the work order for it, or that's called the referral or that, but you still have to.
That has to be dispatched to the place to get the visitation going, but it comes back on you. If that's not being dispatched, even though you don't have anything to do with that.
Billie Tarascio: [00:03:49] Sure. Okay. I do want to talk about visitation because I think it's such a big deal and so important, but let's back up. How does a case get started?
And is there a case opened every time a call is made?
Vanessa Adams: [00:04:05] No. So case all cases get started by going through a call to the hotline. So somebody feels like a child is being harmed or abused or neglected in some way. They fear for that child safety. They put a call into the hotline. The hotline can take it as a few things, one as a status communication.
And that's just a notification on a current case that doesn't meet report level. So there might be a case open and it's like a family member found out about the case and they want the DCS case manager to call. So they called the hotline, the hotline notifies through that status communication, or they can take it as a new report.
And that means it has new information and it can even be on an existing case. So new allegations on a new case that would have to be a whole new investigation for those.
Okay. And so when somebody calls in and they make a report of abuse or neglect it's either a status update or it's a new report, or it's a new report on an existing case.
If it's a newer report and there's not an open case, what does DCS do?
even if it is a case that is open, they all go through the same kind of things. So it's going to go to the hotline if they say yes, this is our report and needs report level. We need to go out and investigate. They're going to give it a priority level.
So those range from P one to P four and. P one is the most time-sensitive. So priority one, you must go out and make contact within two hours.
Billie Tarascio: [00:05:43] Wow.
Vanessa Adams: [00:05:44] That's how quickly they need to get there with a P four. It's not until seven days.
Billie Tarascio: [00:05:49] Seven days. How serious does the allegation need to be? To meet a P one level?
Vanessa Adams: [00:05:55] So because hotline and case management are two separate things. I didn't get that part of the training.
Billie Tarascio: [00:06:02] Got it.
Vanessa Adams: [00:06:02] So I'm not sure on that one, but I do know that it needs it's pretty severe.
Billie Tarascio: [00:06:08] Okay. So then you said that there was an initial case manager. Are they the people that do the investigation?
Vanessa Adams: [00:06:14] Right. So they're called the investigation case manager, and then we kind of separate.
We when I was there, we separated it by investigation, case manager and ongoing case manager.
Billie Tarascio: [00:06:24] Okay. And what do the investigation case managers do?
Vanessa Adams: [00:06:29] So they are the ones. So let's say they get a report on their desk. They start pre-commencement, which is gathering like all of the DCS history, all of the DPS history, criminal histories.
They're talking to the source, they're gathering as much information as they can prior to making contact with the family. And then they go out and make that initial contact. So they. Go to the house to conduct the interviews. And they do walk through of the home and for the interviews, they're interviewing everybody in the household.
So parents, kids, any other adults that are in the household they're interviewing everybody they can so that they can gather information for that assessment that I was talking about, the family functioning assessment.
Billie Tarascio: [00:07:17] Okay.
Vanessa Adams: [00:07:18] So they need to gather all that information and that helps them to determine.
One, if a safety threat is, is actually occurring and the truthfulness of those allegations.
Billie Tarascio: [00:07:28] Okay. So what did you say that was called a functional family
assessment?
Vanessa Adams: [00:07:32] Oh, family functioning assessment, FFA.
Billie Tarascio: [00:07:35] Family functioning assessment. And what is being assessed?
Exactly.
Vanessa Adams: [00:07:41] So. The household is being assessed.
Every household member is being assessed. So it talks about the extent and circumstances regarding the maltreatment. It talks about the child's functioning, adult functioning, their parenting practices how they discipline. It also goes over behavioral capacities, emotional capacities and cognitive capacities.
And those are things like. Does the parent take action? If there's a safety, like is the child putting their hand on the stove? Are they gonna go and grab them? Do they have a history of protecting? Are they understanding their children's developmental levels? Like a two year old? What their expectations should be rather than a 14 year old?
Do they understand those kinds of things?
Billie Tarascio: [00:08:29] Okay. So that is a huge job. And some of those things are so subjective. So can you, do you know what type of training and qualifications the investigating officers have to, or investigating caseworkers need to have.
Vanessa Adams: [00:08:45] Yeah. So when we get got hired on, as you go through six weeks of what's called core training, and in that you're learning cultural competencies you're learning the definitions of abuse and neglect different Different ways that manifest how households function differently.
It goes over. It's very extensive. And it does there's weeks that you spend just on how to gather this information for the FFA.
Billie Tarascio: [00:09:12] Wow. Okay. Vanessa, let's take a quick second and talk about your educational background. What is your educational history?
Vanessa Adams: [00:09:23] So I got my associates at GCC and I went. Onto ASU and got my bachelor's in was my bachelor's in psychology and criminal justice.
And then I went on and did a master's program there with forensic psychology.
Billie Tarascio: [00:09:44] Okay. So you certainly, we had a lot of background, a lot of education. When you went in and you got the six weeks of training, did you find it to be sufficient?
Vanessa Adams: [00:09:55] I found it to be very sufficient in the ongoing state or in the investigation stages.
Billie Tarascio: [00:10:02] Okay.
So I feel like it was very informational. You got everything you needed and they gave you, like, I came out with notebooks, notebooks of information for the ongoing side, I feel like that. Kind of could have used a little bit more training in that aspect, but every case is different. So it's kind of hard to sure.
Vanessa Adams: [00:10:26] Hard to do that. So I'm not sure.
Billie Tarascio: [00:10:29] So after this FFA what are the possible outcomes?
Vanessa Adams: [00:10:35] So possible outcomes they're going to substantiate. That means that the child is unsafe and there needs a plan to be put in place. They're either going to be a, have to remove or put in a family member or something, or they can unsubstantiate and say, no, I don't see a safety threat occurring here and close the case.
And that's it.
Billie Tarascio: [00:10:56] I want to take a quick minute here because this is really important. Police officers are investigating to determine whether or not something happened , in the past and whether or not they have enough proof to show a crime happened. DCS is looking to determine right now and moving forward is your child in danger.
Vanessa Adams: [00:11:16] Right.
Billie Tarascio: [00:11:16] And this is really important for parents to know if something has happened in your home. And, you know, somebody has called CPS. It is your job at that time to make sure your children are safe at that time. So let's say a step sibling was violent with a kiddo of yours or something like that.
It is important for you to make sure whatever threat happened that caused this investigation is handled by you. Moving forward. And so that might mean that it's a good idea for you to take that step sibling and put them on a different schedule where they never see your child or something like that.
And if you have eliminated any potential safety threat, it is a great way to stop CPS from moving to another level, because there's no possible threat of ongoing harm.
Vanessa Adams: [00:12:06] Right. That's a good point to make, because that goes into is the parent taking action? Yes. This happened, but what did they do about it?
Billie Tarascio: [00:12:13] Sure.
Vanessa Adams: [00:12:14] What are they doing to mitigate that in the future? And so that would also go into the FFA saying, okay, yeah, this did happen. But they did a, B and C and made a safety plan on their own. And so they have that cognition to understand that their primary role is to protect their children and they're taking it seriously.
Billie Tarascio: [00:12:35] This is really hard because as a as a lawyer, I am always, you know, we are always telling people, admit nothing. Like admit nothing. It is the police's job to prove something happened. And CPS is a sort of prosecutorial agency because of course there's a child abuse registry and CPS and the police talk.
So depending on what it is that you say to CPS, you could be charged with a crime. So the lawyer part me, is like, you need to be really careful what you say to CPS. But then the other part of me is. Is is hedging that a little bit, because you have to be willing and you have to be capable of showing that you're going to protect your children, which sometimes means you have to admit that something happened.
Vanessa Adams: [00:13:22] Right. There is a line and it kind of goes against what, like as a person you would want to do, because you don't want to admit your faults. You don't want to admit that these things happened, but with DCS, the more open that you are, and the more honest you are, I feel like it's, it's for the better for you, because.
Billie Tarascio: [00:13:42] Yeah. I mean, I totally understand that perspective and I can see that and I can see how that would be. Correct. I would also encourage people to talk to a lawyer before they even have the CPS discussion, if at all possible, because you have to figure out how to be open and honest and transparent and instill confidence in the CPS worker and not admit to a crime that could land you in jail.
Vanessa Adams: [00:14:05] Right. Cause there is criminal conduct cases and it could be transferred over to that.
Billie Tarascio: [00:14:09] What does that mean?
Vanessa Adams: [00:14:11] So criminal conduct cases usually involved OCWI, which is where those are higher level of investigators. I think they're actually,
Billie Tarascio: [00:14:20] OCWI is what does that stand for?
Okay. So we had to look this up because it's really important, but we didn't know what OCW I stood for. So what does
that stand for?
Vanessa Adams: [00:14:29] So it's office of child welfare investigations.
Billie Tarascio: [00:14:32] Okay. Now, how are these different from the type of investigator that you were?
Vanessa Adams: [00:14:37] So these are like previous.
Actual cops, actual police officers there. They have badges, they work and they do like the forensic interviews type of things. They, they work on all of the criminal conduct cases.
Billie Tarascio: [00:14:51] Okay. So I'm looking at like an open, an open application. I'm not even sure you have to have been a policeman officer.
Vanessa Adams: [00:14:58] No, you do not actually.
Billie Tarascio: [00:15:00] Okay. So, but you were given a badge and you are investigating a crime. So your job is not only just to keep kiddo's safe, but you are also involving some sort of criminal issues. So do you know, as a parent, if OCW is coming, or if CPS is coming,
I don't believe that there's the distinction until they get there.
So you wouldn't, you wouldn't know.
But when they're there, one of the things that you should probably ask is which organization are you with? Would that be enough? Or who would you need to ask?
Vanessa Adams: [00:15:33] So you could ask to see their badge because their badge is going to say, OCWI, or it's just going to say case manager.
Billie Tarascio: [00:15:41] So if you're talking to OCW CWI, you really need to be more careful. You probably need to say less, you probably need to get yourself an attorney. And, and if you can, you know, get your kiddo out of there to go stay with grandma or grandpa, or like neutralize, whatever threat there could've possibly been.
And then be quiet because you were under investigation for a
crime.
Vanessa Adams: [00:16:06] Definitely have a plan, but I think it is important to note that how I mentioned, like the first thing you do is go to court. You are appointed an attorney if you cannot afford one. So you do get an attorney and they attend that first hearing with you.
So before you go to that hearing, it's called a conference. So you meet and it's for an hour and we go over all the things that we're going to say in the court hearing what, what we agree to, what you're not going to agree to. And then we go into the court hearing, let the judge. Make his rulings.
Billie Tarascio: [00:16:37] Okay, so let's say something's happened. Let's say you got into a fight with your teenager. Your teenager was super bratty. You got into a fight. Maybe you wanted them to be drug tested. I don't know. There was something that happened that involves some sort of a physical altercation between you and your teenager.
And CPS has now come in and they're investigating that your kiddo told their other parent there are other parents called CPS. CPS substantiates. Yes. There was this physical altercation between you and your teenager. What would you be asked to agree to with CPS at that point?
Vanessa Adams: [00:17:11] So you're going to with so domestic violence, they're going to ask for probably some classes to be taken.
They're going to put in some services. Visitation is going to be probably supervised. Until we can determine if this is something that he doesn't need to be supervised. Also maybe even talking with the psychiatrist, the unit psychologist and seeing if it's appropriate to even have as a visitation at that time.
Billie Tarascio: [00:17:42] So would the psychologist talk to the child or the parent?
Vanessa Adams: [00:17:47] They would talk to the case manager. So the case manager would go over all of the details with the unit psychologist, and then if needed, she may talk to the child.
Billie Tarascio: [00:17:58] Okay. So this is another thing that gets really tricky. You're allowed in Arizona criminally to physically discipline your children.
CPS may determine that that physical discipline was child abuse or is child abuse.
Right. If it's over like an extent. So I kind of think about it. Like you wouldn't hit a two-year-old or like spank a two year old the same way you would spank a 14 year old. It's just kind of understanding there's boundaries and trying to, beyond the other side of those boundaries, not on the extensive end of that.
Absolutely. I think what you're saying is really important while it is legal to physically discipline your children, what is appropriate and not appropriate. Discipline is going to be very different depending on the person that you're talking to and how they view the world and consider is reasonable.
Vanessa Adams: [00:18:54] And I think it is also legal in Arizona to leave your child home alone.
Billie Tarascio: [00:18:58] It is legal.
Vanessa Adams: [00:18:59] And you just have to determine that as a parent. So thinking about it again, I wouldn't leave. I mean, I have a five and a nine year old. I wouldn't leave them home alone.
Billie Tarascio: [00:19:09] Right, right. And that's a tough one. So when is it neglect?
You're allowed to leave your children home alone. If they are mature enough, if they are responsible enough, if it's for a reasonable amount of time, we had one client who left her 16 year old in charge of her, something like five to eight year old for a weekend. And CPS did not find that to be appropriate and ended up charging her with neglect, becoming very, very involved with her life for years and years and years because of that decision she made.
Vanessa Adams: [00:19:45] Right. And I think it's also good to know that. There are though you're not supposed to have biases. And you're supposed to think of every case. Like every case manager is not going to do things the same. They're not going to see things the same. They're not going to articulate things the same way either.
So I feel like there are, that's where we see the differences, like why would they substantiate on this and not substantiate on this? And I think it's because of different case managers. Represent in different weights. Absolutely.
Billie Tarascio: [00:20:18] So after you go to that initial court hearing, you said you're going to have a court order probably for visitation.
Vanessa Adams: [00:20:26] Right. So visitation has always set up at least two times for, I think for younger children is two times for two hours a week. Or sometimes it's, you can do one time for four hours a week.
Billie Tarascio: [00:20:40] And supervisors, can they be either family members or friends or neighbors or a a professional organization or is it always a professional organization?
Vanessa Adams: [00:20:52] So that varies because if your child is removed, but placed with your parents, And your parents say it's okay, that you can come over and visit the child. And the DCS case manager is confident in the parent's ability to mitigate that threat. So let's say you're using substances there. If are they able to recognize when you're using those?
Are they able to tell you, do they have enough in them to be able to tell you like when you got to go? So I think it, it just varies by case.
Billie Tarascio: [00:21:28] Okay. So if there is a family court, if you've got a divorce parent, and let's go back to the example where there's a physical altercation between you and your teenager, and CPS has decided this is child abuse, you are way over the line.
Will they automatically place the child with their other parent?
Vanessa Adams: [00:21:48] If that parent, if they, if they're in separate households and that parent is determined to be safe and there's no threats against their allegations against that parent, then we shouldn't DCS. Wouldn't be removing because there is a safe and appropriate parent.
Billie Tarascio: [00:22:06] Okay. So then what I've heard a lot of times is You know, when, when parents are together in that situation, DCS will tell the, the non abusive let's just use that term, the non abusive parent, you need to get divorced, or you have to get an order of protection, or you have to take action to show that you're going to be in a separate household.
Had, did you have that come up at all?
Vanessa Adams: [00:22:29] I had it come up, not in the fact when they were married, but when the abusers are still together and still want to be in that relationship together. Then we have to include, I had to include that other person, even though he wasn't a father on the case, I had to include him in those services because I have to be confident if I put these children back in this house.
Is domestic violence going to continue? So I needed to have him do some domestic violence classes. And so it could just pull in other people into your case.
Billie Tarascio: [00:23:02] And if if you've got two parents that live in different households and you know, mom had an altercation and is abusive, or dad did whatever and the other parent can, is safe, not a threat.
At that point, does DCS close the case because you have a parent able to take care of that child or does the case stay open against that other parent?
Vanessa Adams: [00:23:23] So this is where I, the lines are kind of blurred for me. So I do know that the family functioning assessment is done per household. So it's going to be done in the abusing household and then in the non abusing household.
So if it's opened in this one, but close in this one logically thinking and from what I've experienced, I would say it would be closed because the child has a safe and appropriate parent.
Billie Tarascio: [00:23:50] Yeah. And I think at that point, the, the issue is if the safe, inappropriate parent is not taking steps to keep the child safe from the abusive parent, that's when CPS may move forward.
And when CPS tells you, instead, you need to file something in family court. It's probably because of that situation. CPS needs to know that the kiddo's going to be safe from the abusive parent and family court can take care of that. And you, as the parent can take care of that, as long as you're willing to, to go file something in family court, to let the family court know what happened and take care of whatever
issues there are.
Vanessa Adams: [00:24:22] Yeah. Are you taking action again? And do you have it in you to say to the father of your child? No. You can't see them or no, I can't let you come to the house or no, you can't bring a birthday present or it gets hard when you're, because you've had a relationship with this person and you have a child with this person.
So having that backbone to say that is where. DCS needs to have the confidence.
Billie Tarascio: [00:24:50] And it's also really hard because I could see like, just putting myself in that situation. If somebody who had had an altercation with a teenager, wanted to come over and bring a birthday present. And I was confident that in that, in that interaction, there would be no safety threat.
You might think logically that you can do that. But if you do, you are putting, you are risking that the CPS case manager may not agree with you.
Vanessa Adams: [00:25:16] Right. If that case manager has a different view on that than you did, because things happen spur of the moment. So anything could happen, even if they're only there for like five minutes, anything could happen, right?
If you have a case manager thinking that way, then they may not think that you have, they may not have competence in your abilities.
Billie Tarascio: [00:25:36] So in my opinion as parents who are good parents, the best thing you can possibly do is get CPS out of your life as quickly as possible. And that, that probably means jumping through a lot of hoops and maybe sucking up and telling people exactly what they want to hear, because you want them out of your life.
Right. I would do anything and everything that they say and I'd know that there's a lot of waiting with DCS because the case managers have so many cases, right? So. They have to respond to all of these people. You might be waiting for a week or something I would follow up and follow up and follow up and just be there and be as communicative as possible.
This is important. I think this is really good advice because parents can lose their mind without knowing where their kids are. I completely understand that. Right. And so it's, but you can't lose it on your caseworker. Cannot.
Vanessa Adams: [00:26:35] You can't do it. You can't.
Billie Tarascio: [00:26:38] Following up and following up and following up, you also have to do it in the most polite and kind way, even though you're dying inside.
Yes. And that's something I thought about all the time is. When these visitations, there, there could be a list and they could not see their kid for maybe a couple of weeks. And though that's unacceptable, it happens and it's even unacceptable with the courts, but it happens as a mom not seeing or knowing exactly where my child is, I don't know, just thinking about that makes me feel sad.
Right, right, right. So I mean, the best thing you can do, really, the best thing you can do is prevent this from happening. Handle it as appropriately as you possibly can. If CPS is going to be involved. Get advice, get help, jump through whatever hoops they want.
Be polite, be persistent, be patient. What else? What else can you tell parents they should do?
Vanessa Adams: [00:27:34] I think about that is like, keep your enemies closer. So that case manager would be my best friend, my best, best friend.
Billie Tarascio: [00:27:41] How many cases did you have when you were a case manager?
Vanessa Adams: [00:27:45] So it varies in and out, but so we went by, you go by case load, but you also go by kid count.
So because you have to see every single one of your kids every month. So I believe I got up to about 35, 40 kids,
40 kids. And you needed to see them every month.
Yeah. Yes. Every single month you had to go to the house that they're living in be that family members or foster care Or a foster family.
You are making sure the house is still appropriate, trying to determine safety and making sure, like asking the kids flat out, do you feel safe? And that gets a little rough with little kids.
Billie Tarascio: [00:28:24] Right, right. Wow. So I can only guess, but why did you leave that position?
Vanessa Adams: [00:28:34] Well, it, it became a lot. I felt like I was taking away from my own family and I wanted to give, I wanted to put families back together, but when it became taking away from my own family, I can't do that my own kids too.
But also I didn't see a lot of reunification really. Right. I did reunify a couple of families, but I did also have to sever rights. And I just didn't feel good about it.
Billie Tarascio: [00:29:02] So you felt like reunifications weren't happening quickly enough. They weren't happening often enough. Did you see mostly good families?
Vanessa Adams: [00:29:15] I saw a lot of drug abuse taking that's what was taking the families down, honestly, holding them down and the inability to. Like they weren't at a point where they could make a change because they were so deep into it. Um, And so then you get to the point where you can't keep a kid in care forever.
Right? So you have to make some decisions for permanency for the children.
Billie Tarascio: [00:29:43] Got it. Got it. So drug abuse is really making is, is what you see as the number one reason children are coming into custody.
Vanessa Adams: [00:29:53] That's a lot of what I saw. I saw a lot of drug abuse, a lot of mental health. I had a cognitive delay, one yeah.
Of where both mother and father were cognitively delayed. That was hard for them because, you know, it's just, they need to learn, but also this baby's just born and needs to be safe.
Billie Tarascio: [00:30:17] Right, right, right. It just sounds like the hardest job.
Vanessa Adams: [00:30:22] It's hard to balance when, cause I, you gotta be tough and you have to like put up, put up this wall, but also I just want to help you.
Billie Tarascio: [00:30:34] Right? Yeah. Okay Vanessa, what else is there anything I've missed? I feel like this has been a fantastic episode. Is there anything that we've missed that people really need to know?
No, I just will really reiterate the part of make that case manager your best friend. Talk to that case manager, meet with them.
You're meeting with your lot to meet with them. At least once a month are supposed to be meeting with them at least once a month. So do that. They're going to give you a service letter at that meeting. Check off all of those services and just. Jump through those hoops.
Jump through hoops, just do it. Do you find that the resources that CPS offers can and do help people?
Vanessa Adams: [00:31:16] They can if you participate if you actually engage and do it and go in with an open mind?
Not just like, Oh, I'm here because DCS made me. Yeah. Yeah, no, maybe there might be a real problem. So let me, let me go in and do this and do my best. And then.
Billie Tarascio: [00:31:31] I'll tell you, the client that I was talking about before, who left her kiddos for a weekend and ended up having. CPS involved for a long time in her life.
She did all of those classes. She, she did all of the love and logic classes. She ended up taking parenting classes after CBS was out. She found them to be so valuable. She found that she had so many, so many more tools as a parent because she had been a single mom for a long time. And by taking advantage of, of learning new things outside of her culture, outside of her own upbringing, she found it to be really,
really valuable.
Vanessa Adams: [00:32:03] And it's all free. You're getting it all free. And I did have one client actually think me and thank DCS for coming into her life because, and that was one of the families I was actually able to reunify when the case came in. She didn't even know where her six month old was. She was, she didn't even know where the baby was.
She was on drugs in a hotel room. And by the end, she had gotten an apartment. She had gotten a job. She got in a car, she finished all of her classes. She's been participating in additional classes and I was actually able to reunify. And that was the best.
Billie Tarascio: [00:32:40] That's a great story. That's a fantastic story. I mean, you have, you have very few options if CPS does take custody of your kids, you can either invest in that process and do what they need you to do and get your kids back and try to make your life better. Try to try to make, you know, take what they're giving you and make it work for you. Or you can fight them, probably lose your kids and not get anything out at these free resources.
So I think that that's a fantastic message.
Vanessa Adams: [00:33:10] I do too. I was, that was my, that was my best case,
Billie Tarascio: [00:33:13] Good job Vaness! Yay. And I'm so happy that we have you here at Modern Law. Thank you for this time. I really appreciate it. And we'll talk again soon. Thank you.