Should parenting plans include details about cell phone use and discipline?

In this Modern Divorce Podcast, we do a deep dive into the common issues that come up for divorced parents who are jointly raising children. And there are problems aplenty - which can sometimes be solved beforehand in a well drafted parenting plan.

What if mom doesn't want the kiddos to have cell phones because they aren't doing their school work? But dad disagrees because he pays the cell phone bills. That could be part of a parenting plan. But how should issues like children's doctors and discipline be addressed?  How should a parent react when the other uses corporeal punishment like spanking when the other is strictly against it?

Colombian-born family attorney Henry Alzate talks with Modern Law's Billie Tarascio about how to navigate these very difficult waters, and how to handle communication issues that surround disagreements. Building a parenting plan may need to include details for dealing with a teenager when that child is currently five.

Henry Alzate has a private practice in the Phoenix area, and can be reached at 602-290-5487. You can also reach Billie Tarascio at info@mymodernlaw.com or at MyModernLaw.com

Transcript

Billie Tarascio (00:23):

[Inaudible] from nine to five [inaudible] divorce podcasts. I was thinking, this was the way he didn't go. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] About me. I don't live like that. [inaudible]

Billie Tarascio (03:18):

Unlike anyone I've ever met. And he is brave. He is killer in the courtroom. He is not afraid to take on a fight. And I know you just got the three-minute version of his story, but if you get a chance to ask this man about his story, it is unlike any that you will hear anywhere else. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here today. And now we're going to talk parenting plans. So we are going to talk about a lot of different situations. And then, and then getting your take Henry on whether or not a more specific or more vague parenting plan would be better. So for instance, we're going to talk about unmarried parents. Who've never lived together. People who've been married a very long time. People who have maybe an out of state plan. And then what we think about optional provisions. Like, should we, should we discuss discipline or common routines in parenting plans? So with that Henry let's start with the first situation that I want to talk about is you've got an unmarried couple. They've never lived together. They were not in a long-term relationship. They got pregnant, they're having a baby and they're going to figure out how to, how to navigate being co-parents without ever being in a relationship. What type of a parenting plan should they consider?

Henry Alzate (04:38):

I am so glad that you started with, without one with the unmarried with parents. One of the issues that comes up is often problematic to, to lack of trust because these parents did not live together. They did not learn a lot about one another. So I run into this issue of one of the parents not trusting the other. So one of the things that our listeners people who are going to be looking at this should be thinking of is what is the level of trust that they have. And often one parent feels like they are more experienced managing a child, you know? And, and, and so sometimes there is issues of control of letting go. And also how, how close are these parents to one another? What is the logistics? Are we looking at one on, you know, leaving and sort of prize the other one, living and mass and, you know, transporting out a young child?

Henry Alzate (06:06):

You know, we, we haven't said how young the child is, but all usually at big games at birth, it can be a baby. You know, the child can be a baby or a two year old. So I think they, each you have plays and to how specific you want to get. And in being able to trust the other parent, it happens a lot to fathers, for example, because the mother gets attached to the baby and for, you know, for correct reasons. And so there can be, we saw novel restrictions on the father's parenting time due to the age of the child. It's just important that it be properly related to the, to the judge, if it gets to that point, if it have to be to, to the judge, one area that I think should be very specific, you know, cause there is different areas that should not be too specific.

Henry Alzate (07:13):

Others should, should be where we specific. And one of the areas that should be specific is transportation arrangements pick up and drop off of the child. Very important. And also for school, if the child is school age or for a daycare, this is a continuous source of problems and frustration for parents because on times they don't put a lot of specificity into this arrangement. So that's all I have and unless you have other questions, but I think thrust and you know, the logistic issues and certain, you know, transportation, et cetera, should be more specific. And then of course the parents should be aware and our audience should be aware that these plans should be revisited at least once a year, maybe more as the child grows older to accommodate for these four new themes that are happening.

Billie Tarascio (08:36):

So I think that's all fantastic. But when there isn't trust, because you've never lived together, you'd never raised a child children together. You don't know each other that well, when, when you don't have trust, should your parenting plan be specific on areas? Like for instance, let's take the baby, for example, should you have in your parenting plan that dad will only feed the baby breast milk from bottles and not formula until it's discussed with mom, should that type of specific provision being a parenting plan or baby has sensitive skin or eczema. And this is the only type of soap we're going to use. Should that level of specificity be in a parenting plan or how should that be tackled?

Henry Alzate (09:24):

I think that's very important. I had that Aisha come up where the mother feels like she is more experienced sometimes because it is true that, that the mother is more experienced sometimes just by virtue of having given birth to the baby. You know, you might feel like, you know, I know more and the father doesn't know as much that this happens. And I think that level of specificity should be included if the parents agree. The problem is a lot of times they don't agree. The one parent, the, the, the one parent says, you know what? I don't want to be told what to do. Just drop the case for why. I just want to say, I'll, I'll have the child from sex or whatever time and leave me alone. So they don't wanna have anything to do. Because again, the issue of trust, you know, they haven't had a relationship.

Henry Alzate (10:28):

So if you feel strongly, you know, about the ointment that should be applied to the child. If that's important, if there is a skin condition the breast milk comes up all the time. You know that I want my child fail only breast male for this particular time. I think that issue should go to the judge. If it's important enough for the parent, it should go to the judge. And the judge will take into consideration because remember these folks always the best interest of the child is the most important thing. So if you can make a good argument and always begin with Arizona revised statute, 25, four or three, that's a real important, no matter what you're doing in a custody case, you should always begin from there.

Billie Tarascio (11:30):

All right, that's fantastic. Now, how does your answer change? If we've got a different couple, this couple has been married for 15 years. They have three children. They've raised these children together. The kids are, let's say, you know, 12, nine and five. Now, should your parenting plan be specific on issues like how we're going to discipline our kids, how we're going to eat them, what schedule they're on? Or should we,

Henry Alzate (11:58):

I think that the more specificity you can agree to is very important because one of the issues and for children that age is to have consistency between the two households. One of the biggest art forms on the side of parents says one parent, once the children are in bed you know, aren't blogged from TV, from technology at a certain time, say 8:00 PM, 9:00 PM. The other parent might be like, ah, whatever, I don't care. They can go over that 10, 11, whatever in it creates issues. One parent has open access to cell phones. The other one doesn't. So if the, if the people, you know, in that 15 years, they build any kind of trust about parenting, then perhaps they'll be able to be more flexible. In other words, do we really have a conflict as these are wheel conflict? Or is this a matter of, you know, I'm standing on my principle, you're standing on your principle.

Henry Alzate (13:16):

So there is no compromise asset asset that, or there's a, do we have a real problem, right? Because if you have persistent conflict, you may need the assistance of a parenting Corby negative. That's someone appointed by a court to make conflict decisions with more space than a court. So if I'm like, I need an answer by Monday morning, can I take the child to this extra curricular activity doctor appointment? It comes up in so many ways these conflicts could happen. And in unexpected ways, and also in, in bear, we expected ways like education were Legion, et cetera, you to document any persistent disagreements. And it may be the case that you will have to go to court for a modification to gain more control and more certainty for the children. One of the things that that judges look at in situations like that is what are the conflicts about in how are the parties behaving each party?

Henry Alzate (14:34):

We have good faith, or as these just, you know, continuous bickering remember folks, there is many ways to borrow and well, just because the way you're powering thing, doesn't exactly coincide with the other parents that should not necessarily be a problem. I think I, I always ask people, you know, what is the purpose of these, these agreements? You know, that's the lease agreement affect something that is core to the child. Like no three issue on schooling, sports, travel, religion, you know, big, big things. And there is other things there's not an exhaustive list.

Billie Tarascio (15:21):

Yeah. I think that, that is a great point. I, I tend to advise when there are two good parents, I tend to advise to leave the specificity out because many times having specificity can lead to spying, lots of questioning. Was your dad following the parenting plan? Did you go to bed at eight o'clock? Like you were supposed to, did you get to, did you do your homework? It says in the parenting plan, you have to do your homework. So when I have two good parents, I tend to, to, to recommend that we don't put those things in. But when there is one parent that really isn't doing isn't meeting the children's needs, and that's what you were talking about, figure out what's important. You know, if, if dad wants to have parenting time, but he's not doing homework with your, your kiddo and the kiddos got a learning disability and has to do homework every day, then maybe that needs to get in the parenting plan. And that's different from just saying, it's very important to me that you eat dinner every night at six o'clock, because that's when we ate dinner. And so we better eat dinner at six o'clock

Henry Alzate (16:39):

That's right. This is, this is an important point, the, the type of, of parents, and also the type of issue, what are we dealing with? Some of these issues can await, you know, the, the dual and home working that can accumulate really quickly and become a crisis. Right. So it's very important. And I, I do agree with you that, you know, not getting too specific, you know, with two people who are not very conflictive, they're just not very conflictive. So it doesn't really have to be that precise. I, I do agree with you on that. But it can get, it can get very vitriolic, you know I run into issues a lot with extra curricular activities. Like one, one parent is on board and really wants to do it and believes this is core to the child. And the other parent is like, ah, you know, I can do it. You know why? Because they remember with, think about this folks, their role and impact that we marriage often has in these custodial relationships. You know, the guy's got a new wife, new babies, he can be driving around doing soccer, swimming, all these other periods, you know, the other power, and still believes that this has got to be very important and priorities have changed for the other power. When, so there may be an appropriate time for a modification, you know, that kind of thing to provide the other parent a little more control.

Billie Tarascio (18:24):

I think that you bring up such a good point because when you are getting divorced or you're, you know, you're, you're getting divorced. Life was a certain way. You had certain priorities, you lived your life, you know, according to a certain set of rules. And then if you do, if somebody does move farther away or they get a new job, or they get a new wife, or they get a new husband and their logistical priorities become different, you get into a real problem. So if your child is very involved in swimming or has done club soccer for the last, you know, four years, and that was very important to you in your marriage, it might be something that you want to consider keeping in your parenting plan, because that memorializes right away, this is important to us. This is a value we share, and we're going to lock it in

Henry Alzate (19:12):

Indeed.

Billie Tarascio (19:14):

So in general, when, when there's more conflict, do you think it's more important for specificity when there's more conflict?

Henry Alzate (19:24):

Yes. It's taken into consideration. The kind of conflict is really is difficult. It's difficult because you really got a look inside and think, okay, is this an adult fight or are we really fighting about the children? You'll be surprised. The number of feelings and emotions that we made from the pain of the relationship ending and those pains and frustrations can often boys on and the main age, the view of the actual, the children's issues and how it affects them were important. I mean, I have people who sometimes get a cell phone for the kill and they're like, well, because I'm paying for their cell phone, your dad or your mom cannot talk to you on it. And it can become very difficult in create a, what I call like poisoning the water. Right. You're taking an issue that, yes, it's important. I understand you're paying $80 and you feel like, why should this bomb of the other parent access? My child's cell phone when I'm the one painter, but that can create a lot of issues. And that's just one example. There's many like that would, it can be a smaller issue and it grows into something bigger.

Billie Tarascio (20:49):

Yeah. I think that's a great point. And I want to talk about that. Do you think that your parenting plan should include provisions about cell phone use, internet use social media?

Henry Alzate (21:04):

Yes. Yes. I think if, if you can have an open conversation and especially the people that live together 15 years, they should have a working communication, which hopefully they do, they should talk about, okay, well, one parent, some parents are like nine years old. Here's her cell phone. No problem. Some other parents are appalled. They're like, no 16. Right. So talk about it, right? So maybe we can say, okay, you want 16? I want nine. Well, how about we settle kind of in the middle and say, you know, 13 and a half, you know, they can have cell phones, if you can agree to that. That will be great.

Billie Tarascio (21:48):

True. I think when kids are, are, are going back and forth between houses, they end up getting cell phones much earlier, much younger than maybe they would if they weren't an intact household. And it's because your kids are making more, more transitions now. And, and, and, you know, let's say your kids even traveling out of state, like they're going to need a cell phone to communicate. And so many times they ended up getting cell phones earlier. Now, I think it's especially important to talk about, well, what kind of phone? Just because they have a phone, does it mean they should have internet access? Does it mean they should have a Facebook account and instrument Graham account? And if, if that's not discussed in advance, it can cause a lot of problems for parents.

Henry Alzate (22:34):

Yes. And if you feel, you know, like now you can pray there, right? Cause now we've been exposed to these platforms and the cell phones, we know more in advance. So if you can prevent those issues and you're fighting it in court, bring it up to the judge. You okay, the judge, this is what I believe about my child's access to the internet, to Facebook, to many other you know, platforms that are now, there's a myriad of them, B scores you name it. So if you're unable to agree, remember always you can take it. And by reading 25, four or three, it fits. And there, I mean, that is a long list of factors that the judges are supposed to consider. And it fits in there. It fits in the family dynamics. It fits in terms of logistics. While my child is traveling for soccer or wrestling, they need that cell phone.

Henry Alzate (23:35):

So you establish the need. And another one is what if you had a lot of domestic violence, you know, in that 15 year old marriage, maybe we have some trust issues , whatever. Like, I don't want to be calling my husband every time I want to talk to my kids that comes up a lot, the accessibility and the privacy of the conversation. If I give my kids cell phone, I can call them whenever I want and they can call me whenever they want, if they feel weird because, you know, dad was an alcoholic or had a lot of domestic violence, maybe crack cocaine. You know, these are other considerations, other circumstances that affect how you should deal with the communication nature.

Billie Tarascio (24:21):

You bring up a great point. On one hand, we're talking about parenting preferences. On the other hand, we're talking about safety planning because if your kids are now moving back and forth between houses or traveling, you know, they've got more responsibility than they used to have. And so part of it is this is a safety thing. Can they get ahold of people they need to get ahold of. And then if you've got parents who are dealing with addiction or violence, then, then you truly have to make sure that your child has the ability to contact you. And you also want to make sure that your, the other parent isn't taking away their cell phone, when they're at that house to deny you contact, this is so hard because right.

Henry Alzate (25:03):

They do many of them too. We moved the cell phone often to punish the other parent more often. Also one parent will say, wait, let's get a cell phone. Let's pay together. The one parent, the other parent gets a cell phone for the kale. And the other parent comes to me and says, Oh my God, she violated the order. Look, she got the killer cell phone without my permission. And that's usually a non-starter you go to court and you whine about, Oh, she got a cell phone without my permission. That's not going to advance your case where we far, right. That's one of those areas where you got to ask yourself as these are real conflict, right. But we really have a problem is the problem that the cell phone was purchased or is the problem that I'm being prevented from reaching my case on the cell phone. So it can get very my nucleus into the details of how you manage all of those situations.

Billie Tarascio (26:07):

And it can go both ways. You can have those parents that want to be connected to their child 24 seven, and they they're constantly contacting their child when the child's with the other parent. And that you can get into a parent obstructing the other parent's parenting time through contact on the cell phone, which is the opposite end of the coin. And both are problematic.

Henry Alzate (26:31):

I'm so glad you brought that up. You know, we actually see the problem more than I'd like to admit it, but power in a sense, the care to borrow and be with an iPod or cell phone module, a deep sea diving suit, like all kinds of equipment, right? And then as soon as the killer wives there, and I'm going to add this, let's make it out of state kill ghost Romer was on up to North Carolina, loaded with all kinds of goals as well. Here comes mom, Hey, baby time for your bath. You know, mommy's going to be with you on the iPad. Well, that wants to do the bath. Dive only sees the kids like two weeks every year and is desperate to connect. And mom is in Arizona kind of going, Oh my God, he's kind of a stranger. Only sees the cave, you know, you know, twice a year or two weeks. So she feels like she's got to be there, like watching out for the kids. Now, see, this is problematic. This is like letting go, you know, or not, this is what creates conflict. And we, we see that a lot.

Billie Tarascio (27:41):

It's true. And there's no easy answer because if your parenting plan says the child has to have access to a cell phone, that seems like a fine thing to do. But I can tell you every Sunday, before my kids go to their dad's on Monday, we do week on week off. I have to take my teenagers cell phones. And then I give them back when their room is clean, because the only way to clean their room. And it's very effective. I mean, it taking a kid's cell phone is extremely effective. Now, if I had in my parenting plan, something that said I had to give my children access to cell phones, would I be violating it?

Henry Alzate (28:20):

You would probably not. If it's incidental to the management of your household and encouraging them to do the chores, right. I think that'd be a reasonable, that'd be our way from level restriction. You know, something like the kids shall have a cell phone on, on his person at all times that doesn't guarantee that the kid is going to answer at all times. So I have had actually have had very specific parenting plans that say, okay, when the kid is with mom in Texas, you know, mother shall be entitled to open and free. Often they use language like this, like open and free. The court sometimes puts her in their order or a generous communication or robust communication. And then two years later, you're back in court. And like, what does that mean? Does that mean she's got, you know, the guy has got to be calling the kale, you know, three times a day while he's in Texas.

Henry Alzate (29:22):

Is that what robust communication means? So I think, you know, one of the one of the things that is very helpful, I've seen it work where we will, is to provide a window of time for the important phone call. So for example, child is with a mom in Texas, you know, father shall be able to contact the child, you know, at 6:00 PM or 7:00 PM or anytime from seven to way, have a nice window of time. Are we available? And unfortunately some of them get even more specific, specific, whereas like in a place that is undisturbed and 40 of noise, because sometimes the other parents started banging up pots and pans to interrupt the, the communication with the child. So what, what I want to say is that if we are, if we are going to act out and you're going to behave in certain objectionable ways, no amount of specificity is going to deter you from it.

Henry Alzate (30:33):

What is going to do is that it's going to help the other parent to eventually go to court and enforce it. So one of the things you gotta be, look looking for when you're entrusted in specificity, PS, how is it going to assist you if you're, if you're already predicting some problems, Jew one specificity, because that's how you get enforcement. If the plan just says robust communication, you know, that's where we have to enforce. But when you have a window of time that says the father or the mother may call the child from six to eight and that window of time, and the child shall be available, that works for enforcement. If there is persistent violations,

Billie Tarascio (31:18):

That is a wonderful point. And it really, the thing that is important is that you, the parenting plan has to be specific to you and your dynamic and your children. If you've got violence considerations, you want the child to have access to the cell phone at all times. It's extremely important as part of a safety plan. If you don't have those issues, then maybe just simply having a window is your very best bet. And you want to be able, let's say you find that your kids are looking at porn or using the cell phone inappropriately. You want to be able to restrict that and lock it down, talk to the other parent about it. So you have to really think about your personal such circumstances. How old are the kids, if you into enter a parenting plan when your child is five, it's not going to be the same parenting issues you have when, when your child's 15. So how do you recommend parents deal with that?

Henry Alzate (32:14):

That's an excellent point. First of all, I just want to, before I forget four people representing themselves often you know, the core has a form. That's a form par parenting time. Most of that is for you to use as a model as Billy Joe's, man, she on this has got to deal with your specific situation. So think when you see that form plan that, Oh, this is said, I just sign at the bottom and that's it. No, sit down. Think about it, really work through those specifics. And on your point about, you know, the child is five, I think as the child grows, you have to go back for a modification or invite the other parent to modify you to always do that. I always advise clients to go to the other parent with the issue, okay. Joey is looking at porn, how are we going to manage that? Or if is happening and is interference, can we work together? Give the parent the opportunity, try not to be confrontational. I tried to be, you know, kind of opening the door to talk. And then if that doesn't work, unfortunately you'll have to go to court or ask for mediation, which are, by the way, is very successful at resolving conflicts.

Billie Tarascio (33:40):

I agree with you completely. I think these types of issues are some of the best for mediation because ultimately both parents love their children and both parents want the best for their children and they may have a different way of going about it. But there's often common ground in the fact that you both love your children. Couple other questions for you. Do you think that it is appropriate or important to have some guidelines about how you will discipline your children?

Henry Alzate (34:13):

Very, very important. If, if possible, get on the same page and use the same methods of communication for all their children. You know, the 13, 14 often are we mobile or cell phone, you know, until you clean your room or clean the house, you know for my kids clean the house, I have two kids. They are fully capable of cleaning the house. So try to agree on it. This is the method of, of discipline would go into use in and see if you can get on the same page. Often it's not possible. One parent wants to use corporal punishment, the other one doesn't. And so it just depends on the level of [inaudible]. I want to share with our listeners that corporal punishment is a big no-no and Cole wants to go to family Corp and somebody says, well, he spanked the kid, or, Hey, that's not good, even though, and there are separate statue and [inaudible] to have the right as a parent to restrain your children and to punish them, including physical force, reasonable physical force. Once you go to in family court, the judge doesn't go with, they usually say no corporal punishment.

Billie Tarascio (35:40):

Yeah, it's true. And I think if you are a parent there, this can be really hard. And in, in a number of circumstances it can be really hard when you have a difficult child. So when a couple has a child that has been diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder or ADHD, or has a history of, of really challenging behavior, it can be more important in that situation to lock down a discipline plan than ever. And I think it is generally a good idea. I think it's almost always a good idea. If you have any concerns to agree in advance and put it in the parenting plan, no corporal punishment, because this invites so much litigation. If you are the parent that believes in corporal punishment, you are at risk of being accused of child abuse. And you are at risk of crossing the line because nobody knows where it is. And it depends on the judge you have. And if you are the parent that doesn't want corporal punishment and you find out your child's been spanked, you could very easily be end to end up in litigation and you never know which way it's going to go.

Henry Alzate (36:52):

Yeah. That brings up that brings up an important point. Folks. Don't automatically one to CPS in so many circumstances, the one parent, or you spank the kid, or he yelled at the cares and immediately they go to CPS and they report to CPS. Why am I saying this? I should be saying [inaudible], I'm not because CPS will not just look at the parent. You're accusing. They will look at you as well. So expect them to come to your house. And you know that there are no Cocker Rodgers hiding under the cardboards and that you got enough full. So what you're doing is you're inviting more government scrutiny into your private life. Let's do it. If you have a legendary may concern, the kid comes over with browsers or as burned. There's also mental abuse. A lot of parents do it. Sadly, just calling the kid fat or stupid.

Henry Alzate (37:53):

They don't, they don't, they don't beat the kid, but the psychological manipulation can be just as bad. But I advise caution when invoking CPS and in one little tip for folks out there is don't use your new wife or husband as the communicator with your ex to why not to bring your new, clean, beautiful relationship and mix it in with your previous failed relationship. Try to keep these. And, and I know some guys are like, Oh, I can't talk to my wife. She drives me crazy. That's your ex wife. It's not your new ex wife. So that's just a little tape off the cuff there for people. Yeah,

Billie Tarascio (38:40):

I think you're absolutely right. And I, I want to echo that your new spouse or boyfriend should never, ever, ever, ever be the primarily primary disciplinarian,

Henry Alzate (38:52):

Very important as well. Very important as well. If you have a new wife that was the, from someone else stay away from basic cleaning her children, they are not your children. So you technically don't have those rights in second. You can hurt her in her relationship with her ex by interfering. I usually tell people, you know, try to be a friend, bring in some who is dumb or adulthood to these other child, but don't, don't discipline them. It excellent point. That's a good point.

Billie Tarascio (39:26):

You, you know, if you can think of them like your nieces and nephews, you know, love your, your nieces and nephews, you want to impart wisdom. You want to support them, but, but in no way, is it your job to to, to be the boss or the disciplinary and, and, and that will save you from a lot of heartache. One other thing, if you've got a situation where you're really concerned about your child at another parent's house, maybe it's psychological abuse, maybe it's physical abuse, getting a counselor involved before you go to family. Court can be really helpful if they're not in an emergency situation. What do you think about that? When do you think a counselor should get,

Henry Alzate (40:05):

I thought a counselor should get involved when there is a legendary may concern such as self-harm in other issues. But I'm just using that as up as an example. And the second thing is, don't wait for lady gage to begin before you engage the services of a counselor, a lot of people will tell you that, which I agree with that children suffer during the divorce. And they are often it is the case that many children from the Wars attend counseling specifically to cope with this new situation, but don't wait onto your litigation ensues because then it just looks like you're trying to set up some kind of evidence, you know? And unfortunately a lot of people do that. They file suit and then they start counseling on Monday to create a file. Just do it because your child needs it. Eh, maybe you need it and, and do it. And it'll, it'll be, it'll be helpful. Hopefully.

Billie Tarascio (41:22):

Yeah. I, I absolutely agree if you can, if you can do more than he said, she said, if you can get some objective third parties it's, it's a good idea. Okay. We running out of time and I have more questions, but Henry, you know, I could talk to you forever. Do you think there should be that mom and dad should be required to communicate? Sometimes judges will enter into an order that, you know, there has to be a weekly email exchange between mom and dad. Do you think that's necessary or important or should it go in the parenting plan?

Henry Alzate (41:59):

You know, that's, I often cringe at that because you have two parents who absolutely hate one another. I know I'm going for the worst of the case. That's why they hate one another. They don't have anything nice to say, and there is nothing to report. So I actually like it to be a, when I go to court, I say to the judge, okay, your honor. I know you're going to say, yeah, weekly email on Sunday. They like the worst day. I mean, that's the way you're trying to recompress and now you got to send them to your eggs. I'm like, George, can we say, if there is something to report, everybody went to school, everybody ate the launch, everybody pulled their noses and sang. Then there is nothing to rapport. Well, if joy broke his leg and I took him to the hospital on Wednesday, then yes, that merits an email, but let's not communicate just, just to communicate. So I do agree that useful, but when it's wages like that, like you must do it on Sundays. It can be, it can be a problem.

Billie Tarascio (43:09):

I totally agree with you. I think you should communicate when there is a legitimate issue and the hard part is determining what a legitimate issue is. So, you know whether or not you're signing your kids up for sports is a legitimate issue. Hey, we got this thing from the school. My mother think about registering them. Is that okay with you? That's a legitimate issue. Go ahead and email it, but you're right. You know, did they eat dinner? Did they do their thing? Did they do their homework? You know, why, why you got to send an email just to send anything.

Henry Alzate (43:42):

Yeah. And no, and sometimes it occurs like this, that the lazy parent and, and I D I don't mean this as an offense, but one parent is very communicative with the children. They know everything. Oh my God, Carlos got a boyfriend or one of the kids wants to see she's going to be a girl. They know every parent doesn't know anything. They don't talk to the kids. I was like, Oh, hi, how are you doing? So they go to core and they want that Sunday email as a way for them to learn about the kids. They don't, they don't maximize the time that they have with the children to learn about the children often because they are working too much. The other parent has now is not working as much. You know, it's very important to look at the dynamics. I always get into like, okay, is this guy working two jobs, sometimes the guys working at night, so, and then comes home and goes to sleep, never really gets to know the kids.

Henry Alzate (44:41):

So he's waiting nine cheerfully for our Sunday email so that he can learn about his skills. Finally, very often, this is a responsibility in post, on custodial parent, right? In other words, the parent has physical custody most of the time, and sometimes has sole legal decision making. They are loaded with the responsibility to report to the other parent what's going on. And sometimes that's fair because the kid is spending 80% or 70% of the time with mom or about, so it seems fair that they choose report a little bit to the other parent has got less time and in the acting, that's how George has came up with that probation.

Billie Tarascio (45:29):

That's a really good point. And I had not thought about that, but it might be that if you are a long distance parent, you know, having an a weekly email might be really, really useful because everybody's caught up in their lives, but you want to keep in touch. You want to know what's going on. And so I think in that case, having that weekly email would be really beneficial for that out-of-state parent.

Henry Alzate (45:53):

Yes. Yes. And it comes up where importantly, then the, the out of state parents, you know, the guy is in, eh, in Washington state, the woman is in Florida. She's got the child all the time. The guy has, the child may be in the summer. So that, that weekly email becomes very, very important, so important that the judge will hold a party to it. And sometimes punish that parent, if they don't comply with that,

Billie Tarascio (46:27):

It makes sense to me because, you know, I have a week on week off parenting time schedule. But if, if somebody didn't see their kid for three months, a lot happens in three months. But if you just had a weekly check-in, you could, you could kind of see what was happening with them and understand, you know, are they, are they, are they, do they have a new best friend at school? Do they, are they loving the chess club? They just started like, you know, new, interesting things that matter to kids. So I am so glad you brought that up. I hadn't thought about it before, and I'm going to include it in every long distance parenting plan. I do.

Henry Alzate (46:59):

Yes. It's very important with the long patients, because often what occurs. And again, this is knowledge. Respect is just what happens with human nature power when AI gets remarried. So now they have a new ideal, right. And new law, and they are so focused on that. The last thing they want to do is write an email to some guy in Washington, right. It's like, ah, that, ah, so it begins to the guy from watching Tom becomes very disconnected from his child. And so it's important to send that any, it doesn't have to be a very detailed report. I would suggest using bullet points, you know, like he plays soccer on Monday. Oh my God, he's caught a goal. Like get to a point, you know, bond report, what happened? Send it Carbone, you know? Yeah.

Billie Tarascio (47:54):

I like it. Last question. There are services called our family wizard or proper calm that parties are sometimes ordered to use, to communicate. And sometimes parties just agree to use our family wizard or proper com. What do you think about those services? And when do you think people should use them?

Henry Alzate (48:16):

I think they are very useful in a highly conflictive relationship. And I'm talking about the kind of relationship where you do not want to talk to your ex and he doesn't want to talk to you. And even beyond where they hate so many times the complaint comes up, well, she had a doctor's appointment cheering, let me know in advance. Okay. This is very important because medical, medical, and education are some of the most litigated issues and they struck regular activities. Why the, the guy or the woman says, well, I didn't know. She had a game on Thursday. So these, some of these platforms, my family ways, or in some others allow you to plug in those dates that also fulfills often for the custodial parent, fulfills their responsibility to give the other parent informed, Hey, Joey is going to have a soccer match or a wrestling match on Friday, Saturday.

Henry Alzate (49:23):

Here's the others here is born if right there. So it also provides reliable information for the judge to bear. We fight later that you did it because one of the allegations is cheering the word or hearing door, and then they go, Oh my God, I have an email here. Next thing you know, you got a thousand pages of emails and texts for the judge. That's no good. You want to get straight to the point. So that kind of documentation, you can show it to the judge. And the judge goes, well, you did what you were supposed to do. So

Billie Tarascio (49:58):

That's, that's a great advice. If you've got a couple where, you know, one or both of them feel really manipulated by the use of information or, or, or decisions regarding children. I talked to a couple of the other day where both people have their own pediatricians and take the kid to a different pediatrician. And, and, and there was a, an issue where the child was going to be vaccinated twice because there was no communication between the pediatricians.

Henry Alzate (50:31):

See, that's the kind of, that's how ridiculous it can get. And yes, it can get, you can get as [inaudible] as possible. And, and that's a great example of the two of the two two bariatricians another issue. This is really important. And then I'll stop is when you have a child would be subpoenaed or special education needs.

Billie Tarascio (51:02):

Okay.

Henry Alzate (51:02):

Hey, would it have been an IEP meeting on Wednesday? Well, two mine's later, the guy comes to me and he's like, I didn't even know my ex-wife went to his meeting with the teacher, the principal, the whole team created this education plan that now I'm supposed to participate in. And I wasn't included. So one way to cut that out is to put it in my family ways or an okay IEP meeting and two weeks. And the guy doesn't show up, well, you didn't show up, you chose not to participate. So it's a powerful tool, not only to comply with court orders, but also to document your willingness and your good faith and to counter any arguments that you didn't comply. So I would suggest using it have conflict. It just makes it really nice because both parties are able to look at the same information. So I think even in the absence of conflict, it can be a useful tool, especially if you've got two, three, four cares. You know, you don't want to be writing emails you know, well, this is what happening. I think it's useful to have it all in one, one place.

Billie Tarascio (52:14):

Henry, thank you so much for your time and your expertise. This was a fantastic episode and a really good chat. And we will make sure hello and welcome to another area,

Henry Alzate (52:25):

You know, and we, it seems like we touched on a lot of things, but we barely scratch the surface. You can get really, even deeper into these issues. So it's important to control, you know, competent counsel for specific questions. My phone number is (602) 293-5487. And I'm Hamrey Alsace.

Billie Tarascio (52:46):

Thank you so much, Henry. Enjoy your week.

Speaker 1 (52:49):

You're very welcome. Thanks so much for listening to the modern divorce podcast. Remember anything you've heard today or anything you read online is not the replacement for actual consultation with an attorney and does not create an attorney-client relationship. Even if you called in and spoke to you, you were anonymous and we don't have your details and you have not become a client of modern law. However, we would love to speak with you, or you should seek out the advice of legal counsel or counseling or any other expert interview. And if you have an idea for a show topic, or you need to speak to them in Arizona, you can interview info. I N F o@mymodernlaw.com.