Modern Divorce - The Do-Over For A Better You

The Benefits of Nesting: What is it, and is it for you?

January 06, 2021 Attorney Billie Tarascio Season 2 Episode 1
Modern Divorce - The Do-Over For A Better You
The Benefits of Nesting: What is it, and is it for you?
Show Notes Transcript

Nesting. It's not just about getting comfy at home. When divorcing with kids, it's a question of whether you can share a home with your ex so that parenting time keeps the kids in one place while the parents depart when it's not 'their time.' 

Carly Loving, who runs two Nekter Juice Bar franchises in Chandler, AZ, tells her story of how she and her ex split up their time while letting the kids stay under one roof. In this episode, she shares with host, and Family Law Attorney Billie Tarascio, all the details of the good and bad of nesting, and what happened to her family during the process.

Billie Tarascio (00:04):

Hi, and welcome to another episode of the modern divorce podcast. Today we are in for a real treat. We are going to be talking to Carly loving, and she is a divorced mama who has quite the story, including a successful bout with nesting. And now many of you probably have no idea what nesting even is. And I didn't either until a few years ago, but it's cool. It's not for everyone. And I can't wait for you to meet her and hear more about it. Welcome to the show Carly.

Carly Loving (00:36):

Oh, thank you so much. I appreciate it. I am so glad to be here and thank you for asking me to join your podcast.

Billie Tarascio (00:45):

So you've got quite the story and our listeners are always looking to kind of learn from the guests and feel a sense of connection and maybe like they're not so alone and isolated. And so your willingness to share your story here four years out after your divorce is great. So let's give everybody a little bit of background. How many kids do you have?

Carly Loving (01:05):

Okay. I have three beautiful boys. Eight is 2017 and 11. I've been divorced about four years. And it was a long process. You know, we, it wasn't something that was just a light switch. It wasn't something that was overnight. It was, it was it was a long journey and I feel like we did it gracefully, but in my children to this day still, you know, thank us. And we're fortunately still very, very good friends. Okay.

Billie Tarascio (01:41):

Okay. All right. Well, let's, let's get some more background information. How long were you married?

Carly Loving (01:46):

So we were married 18 years. So funny story, if you want to really start from the beginning. So I was set to actually it's funny, I'm from Texas from a small town in Texas. And I hadn't been in Austin, going to community college, got into myself in a little bit of trouble at the age of 1920 and met this boy over the summer and we'd known each other for a while and we dated each other over the summer. And the night before I was leaving for ASU, because that's where my brother lived at the time and we still live together now. The night before I left, my classes were registered. My youth hall was packed. I had, you know, from a Southern town, I had a debutante dress and found out I was pregnant with my first child and crazy story.

Carly Loving (02:45):

My mom who just, you know, I was 20 years old, she sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. And she said, is there somebody you want to go talk to? And I said, yeah, I want to go talk to my granddad, which was her father. And that had been married seven times. Wow. Yes, Billy. So he had been around the block, so he sat me down and he just looked at me. He said, you love him. And I said, yeah. And he said, does he love you? And I said, yeah. And he looked at my mom. He said, I don't know what the problem is. He said, she's made by now. Wow.

Billie Tarascio (03:20):

What a perspective.

Carly Loving (03:23):

So it was kinda it's, this is kind of where my story starts because it was my granddad. He just sat me down. And he said, you know, I've been married seven times. And he said, out of all the, you know, women I've been been with out of all the money I've made and he was a contractor. And he said out, out of all the houses I've built, he said, there's one thing that it comes down to and it's family. And he said, you know, he said, you take 20 years out of your life, whether it's from 20 to 40 or 40 to 60. And he said, that's when you raise your kids, he said, it doesn't matter.

Billie Tarascio (04:01):

Did you want to get married at that time?

Carly Loving (04:04):

It was kind of one of those things that it was, I was very determined that I was, you know, going to have children. And I love this man. And yeah, so we got married within three months and we're married for 18 years.

Billie Tarascio (04:18):

Wow. Okay. So what led to the divorce?

Carly Loving (04:23):

So, unfortunately I think our divorce, there was never like one big thing that happened. It was more just, we became on autopilot, kind of we became more of just friends, became more of just roommates. And, you know, unfortunately we you know, the restaurant business is a very, very hard business. You work you know, separate hours then, you know, other people in arts, our schedules were just so different. And, you know, I think as I grew up older and he grew up, we just kind of became two different people. And, and it was just, we, we still loved each other, but we, we just weren't in love with each other much.

Billie Tarascio (05:09):

And so did you, did you to come to that conclusion at the same time or was one of you done before the other?

Carly Loving (05:17):

No. So unfortunately I was the one that wanted out and my children know that. And you know, I've been very vocal about that as well. So it was my decision. He was very, very hurt and it was, it was not a, it was not a two way street by any means, but that's why this story is even even more important because someone was really, really hurt. And that was my ex-husband. And and of course my children and, and I tell them all the time, guys, this was my decision. And like, we are going to make this right some way somehow. And and that was very important for me. And it was very important for me, for my ex-husband to not go down into a downward spiral as well.

Billie Tarascio (06:12):

What you just said here is so important because all of us want an amicable relationship and we want to protect our children. And we want to recognize that our family is evolving and it's still our family, even if it looks different and someone leaving, someone usually starts this process of a huge blow up and, and you have figured out and you've analyzed and you've committed to figuring out how do I exit a marriage when I'm hurting someone? How do I honor that person? How do I protect them from a downward spiral and protect my children and be honest and authentic about where I'm coming from. So help us understand that because that is some heavy stuff.

Carly Loving (06:51):

No, it was some heavy stuff and be honest. It did not come lightly. And it took probably I mean, a really good solid two years to get to that place. And unfortunately, during those two years I lost both my parents. Both of my parents had gotten sick. My dad unfortunately died of cirrhosis. He drank himself to death and my mother died of breast cancer. So there was about a good four years. Brad just watched these two people. And I always told my children, the two most important things in your life is to be happy and healthy because I saw my dad, he was not happy and my mom was not healthy. And, you know, I respected my mother after, you know, when my dad got sick you know, because that was a very hard time. But after he passed, I finally just looked at my ex-husband and just said, you know, life is too short.

Carly Loving (07:53):

I just said, we have to address this elephant in the morning because he had been sleeping in another room for quite some time. And, you know, we just weren't communicating, we weren't on the same page. You know, we weren't emotionally involved with each other was just more of just like, let's just be here for the kids. And after my dad passed away, I just realized like, life is so precious and so short. And both my parents were 65 years old and I just went, you know, I just, I need more, I need more out of my life. I need more out of my relationship and I can't live my life just for my children. I have to let them know that no matter what you do in life, you have to be happy and you have to be healthy. That was a, that was a huge part for me. And after my dad passed away, it took a full year for us to finally unwind the whole process.

Billie Tarascio (08:46):

Okay. And, and what is nesting?

Carly Loving (08:52):

So nesting. So I got this. So, you know, I worked for Nekter Juice Bar and it was crazy because I had been talking to this customer that always came in and he was the one that gave me the idea. Because he was telling me about his divorce and what he was going through. And he said, you know, as hard as it is, he said, I just wish every parent wasn't even given the option of this. And he said, it shouldn't be that the kids stay in one house and the parents move in and out. And I just looked at him and I went, wow. I was like, that's actually a crazy, but really good concept. I said, I've never even heard of that. And he said, no. He said, it's just so sad to see these kids being dragged from home to home. They're living out of a suitcase to suitcase.

Carly Loving (09:45):

They get, you know, one weekend with their mom. They get another weekend with their dad. And then, you know, there's like all these certain drop-off drop-off times and all this kind of crazy stuff. And I just went, it was like, you know, my kids were just so stressed about stuff like that. And I just, it just clicked. And I just went okay, that that's, it that's, that's what I will do. Okay. And when I brought that up to my ex-husband, because it was very important for us, for the children to feel like they had a, still a very, very good foundation. It was not easy. I don't recommend it for everyone, but if you can get past your own ego and your own emotions, and really, really it doesn't, it could be two months. It could be six months. It could be a year, but just let the kids know that because their, their lives have changed so much that their parents are split, but you don't have to uproot them from their house.

Carly Loving (10:48):

And, you know, my children have a lot of friends whose parents are divorced and it was very difficult when I told them or when we actually told them together that we're getting a divorce. They just said, I don't want to live like so-and-so and so-and-so, I don't want to go from home to home. And, and, you know, so it was, that was very, very something that they brought up immediately to, to me. And I just looked at him. I said, you're not going from home to home. I said, your lives will stay the same. I said, this is between me and your dad. This was not your fault. So nothing, nothing for you is going to change you, you have your same house, you have your same room, you have your same closet clothes, you know, all that kind of stuff. So

Billie Tarascio (11:40):

You brought this up with your ex-husband and you said, I think that we should, you know, at this point, everybody knew you were getting divorced. Right. That wasn't, it was well beyond that discussion point yes. And said, Hey, I think that the kids should stay here and you and I should come up with a schedule where we leave when it's not our parenting time. Yeah. And how did he react to that?

Carly Loving (12:05):

You know, he was he's such an old soul and he's such a sweet soul. And he loves, you know, our children, we love our children the same. And he just said, I think that's a great idea. Wow. So he was onboard with it, even though he was still very, very upset. So it was kind of one of those things that and his schedule, like I said, is very different being a chef. You know, it was, it was almost, we were kind of doing that anyways because he was in another room and, you know, it was, it just became like, okay, well you use the hallway bathroom with the boys and tech deal. But

Billie Tarascio (12:50):

Yeah. So let's talk specifics. Does that mean that you, you kept, did you have any privacy? Like, were you sharing the same bedroom? Like how did that?

Carly Loving (12:58):

Oh, no, no, no, no. You don't share to say no, no, you don't share the same bread bedroom. You got to have boundaries. And it became where he kind of became one, you know, he kind of had his own room, his own bathroom. And I kind of, I had my, you know, the master bedroom with my own bathroom. We separated our stuff, you know, he would come in and out. I remember one time I got mad at him because he left me with no coffee. This is going to be a problem. If you come in the house and I come back and I wake up Monday morning and there's no coffee. Yeah. So I think it was more, that was more of a bigger deal than anything else.

Billie Tarascio (13:43):

You get one other apartment that you also shared, or did you each have your own additional space? Like how did you handle that?

Carly Loving (13:51):

Our own additional space? I mean, kinda, you know, I had friends that I could go stay with. I have a brother, I can go stay with him the same. And sometimes we just made it work where we just stayed in the same house and we let the children kind of see us together and we'd go into our separate rooms as well. And the, and that, that you have to really be mindful and focused. And, you know, I don't know if there's people that are seeing other people, you know, at the time, while you're going through a divorce, you know, you, you kind of really have to put all that stuff aside, really just focus on the children. So it just depends on what people can do financially. I, we fortunately were able to do it where we were just, you know, I can go stay somewhere else for a little while, you know, same crap. Yeah.

Billie Tarascio (14:42):

Yeah. I mean, so would you say it does not sound like you were experiencing a high conflict divorce? No, it was

Carly Loving (14:52):

Not high conflict, but it was still just as sad and traumatizing for us as a family. Absolutely. And that doesn't, that doesn't mean that somebody who has a high, I mean, cause I've recently gone through a breakup, that's very traumatizing. So I get that, but thankfully my divorce was not that way. So that that's, what's hard to be able to have people where they can put stuff aside like that, where you would have to get a separate apartment, you would have to get a separate place, but people are going to have to do that anyways. And we did that in the long run anyways. Right. You know, he, he moved to a whole different state. Right. So it wasn't, it was not very traumatizing, but it was, it was hard for my employees for sure. Absolutely.

Billie Tarascio (15:47):

And I don't ever want to you know, insinuate that if your divorce is in high conflict, that somehow this hasn't been a huge life-changing traumatic event. No way.

Carly Loving (15:59):

Yeah. No, but everybody has the, yeah, yeah, no, but everybody has their own story and, and you know how we were able to do it so gracefully. I don't know. I think that's just always been the personality between me and my ex-husband and we, when we re cause we didn't even get a divorce lawyer, we got a mediate and it was just something that, it, it, you know, we spent $400. So it was but I mean, we both cried and you know, it just, it was still hard and my children cried and, and my little one had still looked at me, I guess it was about a year and a half ago. And he just, he said, this is all your fault on my dad is not here. I looked at him. I said, you're right. I said, it was my decision. And I said, I'm sorry.

Carly Loving (16:55):

I said, if you ever want to sit down and talk about it, I said, I will give you my honest opinion. And it wasn't until about six months after that, that he ran, he really listened to me. And you know, I like, I, you know, had told you before that I've always told my children. I said, divorce is not going to be the worst thing that happens to us, but death is and hate. And I told Levi, my little one, I said, I don't hate your father. I said, unfortunately, we just, you know, grew apart. I said, but you have two parents that get along and that love you and support you. And you know, we just loving each other in different ways. And I said, if we can do that and still be a family and you know, and be here for you, I said, you couldn't ask for anything better. And, and I said, and I never want to sh cause my little one associates the divorce with him moving. And I said, I never wanted your dad to move. I said that this was a great opportunity for him. And he just looked at me and he went, you didn't want him to move? And I said, no. And he just started crying. So yeah,

Billie Tarascio (18:12):

I think the hardest part for children when their parents get divorced or are two things, one conflict, conflict, and hate bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. But the other thing is that if you lose a parent due to a move or the conflict to driving one parent away, or one parent keeping the children from the other parent, that that loss is something that one parent can't make up.

Carly Loving (18:43):

Oh no, no. And I, and I don't try to, and, you know, and my ex-husband is amazing at calling them and FaceTiming them. And he's actually honestly, probably more there for them now than when he was, when he was in the house. Wow. He's much happier. He's got an amazing girlfriend and he's got this amazing job and he communicates more with them on a, on a completely different level than he did when we were living together. Because he was always so stressed and he was stressed about providing for the family and it was, you know, it was, he, he had his own, you know, he had this, I gotta be me and I've got to provide and I got to work, work, work, work, work. And so, you know, it's, it's it, I, I feel like we've come together very mutually on this deal, you might say otherwise, but we do we do communicate very well.

Billie Tarascio (19:44):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you've, you've worked a lot of things out. I think people who are good candidates for nesting usually have older children because it usually doesn't last forever. Yeah. But if you've got somebody that's like a senior or a junior in high school and you can preserve that intact household for them for a year or two, or give them that transition time like you did, that can be really, really great. Yeah. Even then when people are analyzing, are we good candidates? One of the things that I always ask people that I'm consulting with is, well, what, w what were your fights like when you were married? Because usually the relationship dynamics that you have when you're married, that lead to your divorce will continue, but get worse. And so you can sort of predict, like, if you're, if you're a couple like you, where you two just withdrew and you weren't on the same page, but it doesn't sound like there were knock-down drag-out fights or anybody who was spying on somebody else or abusive. Yeah. Those would not be good. Good to share a space in those times, you want to remove interaction between the parents to minimize conflict in front of the children. But if you can, if you can do what you did, it can be a really great workable situation and it can save people a lot of money.

Carly Loving (21:04):

Yeah. Yeah. No, and I agree, I really agree with that. And I guess that's why I'm, I'm very thankful that there wasn't, like I said, in the beginning, there wasn't this huge, we did have a couple of really big fights. In fact, we had one big fight in front of one of my older son's friends. And, and that was when I went okay. And it was kind of one of the first, not, maybe not first, but maybe one out of three over a couple of years. And my kids were just like these aren't my parents. And that's when I just went, you know, we're, we, we can't do this and we can't continue to be these people. So yeah, we did, we, we did withdrawal. And like I said, there, wasn't like a big thing that happened, but if there are two people that aren't getting along and it's, and it's very turbulent and, you know, you can't even be in the same room without, you know, fighting and talking to each other, messing is not going to work.

Carly Loving (22:13):

So you do, so you definitely do have to remove yourself out of the situation. But it's, you know, and maybe you are those people and maybe you can come together and really focus on the kids. I don't know. It, it takes some, it takes a mindset to be able to do it, to be like, okay, who really are the adults here? Because what I have found in some of my situations in relationships that when I'm having a hard time, I'm the one being the child and my children are parenting me. Wow. And it's, it's just recently become quite a mind blowing to me to be like, wow, how did I raise such children that are like, mom, this is this, these are, these are not who we are. And I go, okay, you're right. And, you know, they're very, they're very grounded. And I feel like I've given them that foundation. And, you know, we all get off track. We all, you know, go in and out of of our lane. But I feel like that they have been given that solid foundation, which is nice. That's amazing. Yeah.

Billie Tarascio (23:36):

Okay. Two questions for

Carly Loving (23:37):

You. And

Billie Tarascio (23:39):

For today, I want to know what was the thing that you, what was the most valuable lesson that you learned from your divorce?

Carly Loving (23:51):

Oh, gosh, that's a heavy one. The most valuable lesson that I learned honestly, is that I had so much guilt, so much guilt, the guilt of leaving my husband, even though it's what I wanted about undid me, because I felt so guilty because I was letting my mom down. I was letting my children down. I was letting you know, my brother and my sister-in-law. I was just, I felt like such a failure, but I wasn't happy with myself. And I just, I remember my mom, not even being able to say your ex-husband and I just, I remember cringing because I was like, mom, she is my ex-husband now, like, this is reality. And I can't feel guilty about it anymore. And once I got past the guilt, and once I got past the shame, and once I got past of, you know, knowing that everybody knew that I was the one that left him even, but it was what I needed and it was what I wanted.

Carly Loving (25:00):

And once my children looked at me and said, we just want you to be happy mom, at the end of the day, you know, we just don't want you to fight with that. We want you to be happy, as long as you guys can be in the same room and talk to each other, they're like, we'll be fine. And I just remembered that. I mean, it gives me goosebumps when I think about right now, but I just remember thinking, you know what, you're right, because this is what is going to make me happy in the future. If I can just get past this guilt part. And it is, I mean, I can tell you right now, I love my ex-husband, but I think we're both mutually on the same page that we're glad now that we're not married to each other. And I'm thankful to still be able to have a relationship with his parents.

Carly Loving (25:49):

And his sister and I have just recently just kind of come back around and, you know, so we're, we're able to do Christmas mornings together. We're able to do, you know, he can't really do Thanksgiving cause he's a chef, but so it's still, he's still a part of our lives, but I know to the, to this day that I, I don't have any regrets about it. Cause I know it's the decision I needed to make for myself. So you have to live your life for yourself. You have to live your life not for your children. And as hard as that's going to be, you know, as long as you can do it gracefully and peacefully with love. And, and like I said, not hate.

Billie Tarascio (26:35):

So how did you process that guilt and that shame because many, many times it is women are leaving

Carly Loving (26:45):

Many, many, many times that guilt and shame can be overwhelming. So it's, it's sort of a, you're damned if you do. And you're damned if you don't. Yeah. gosh, I don't know. I think it took a lot of inner work to be honest. And I think it took a lot of just strength. And then it took a lot of me just, you know, focusing on what made me happy and not thinking about, you know, all the white noise and the other people that were talking and knowing that or knowing that it was going to work out as long as, you know, we could, my ex-husband and I could make it work mutually because I didn't want to be angry. I didn't want to be hateful. And but I wanted to be happy and I wanted my kids to be happy and I wanted them to see a happy mom.

Carly Loving (27:40):

So I'm not really, I'm not really sure how to answer that one. It was just, it was a lot of inner work that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I said two questions, but there's one more question that I have for you. What, how long did it take you to feel normal after you started the process of divorce? Well, so that that's a loaded question again. Unfortunately I started the process two years before my X-Men did so by the time, you know, I had given him a year to sign the papers. And by that time I was already moved on, which I think was very insensitive of me. You know, I think I, you know, dating somebody, you know, during a divorce, who's not the best idea. But I was already like, you know, Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm, I've moved on.

Carly Loving (28:48):

So I don't recommend that. But I think it was, I think it was about a year after year after the paperwork was signed. Yeah. So that was, that was, you had two years before you told your husband a year long process and then you had a year after that. So roughly four years of no. And I tell, I tell people that it was, that it was a four year and I don't know if he would say that because I think he feels like he got a little blindsided. But you know, he was sleeping in the other room for, for two years. So I was, but I just, I remember looking at him and I, this is not the relationship that you want. I said, when you find the relationship where you're happy, and I said, you're going to realize that we made the right decision.

Carly Loving (29:43):

And I think he's in there in that, with this this girl that he's dating and you know, they're living together and she's been at my house for Levi's birthday. And I mean, she's like a perfect match. Like you guys are, are so compatible. This is great. I don't know. That's awkward for some people to say, but I want to see him happy. And I think he would see me happy. And I think now he realizes like, yeah, we did make a right decision, but nobody wants to break up their family. No. And, and you know, up, up their children or, you know, have chaos or anything like that. But yeah, it's a, it's a long process and it's, it's not, it's not a light switch and you do have to be mindful of the other person. And trust me, I w I w I was angry at times too.

Carly Loving (30:37):

And he got angry at times with me. And, and then, you know, my children are like, can, can you talk to dad? And I'm like, no, that's, that's your deal. And they were, they were laughing. They were like, Oh, okay, now we get it. So it's but you know, now that the dust is all settled and, you know, we've kind of come into this new modern family, as you know, I like to say it I think we're both much happier and in our kids and our kids love us just as much. And they re they really have thanked us. I mean, my older two, for sure, my little ones kind of coming around. But you have to have stability and, and you have to have two parents that work together to make it right for them. So,

Billie Tarascio (31:26):

Well, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you. I appreciate it. I know you are the owner of seven different Nekter franchises, right?

Carly Loving (31:36):

Well, actually two, so I own two, but I've opened 12 of their corporate locations.

Billie Tarascio (31:42):

Okay. And where are the two? Just in case people want to come.

Carly Loving (31:46):

No, they can come. So I actually live in Scottsdale, but I own two and Chandler a one by the Chandler mall and one off of Ray Road.

Billie Tarascio (31:53):

Okay. All right. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so much and have a wonderful day. All right. You too.