FBI rescues son from Doomsday Mom

What is custodial interference and how is this used to keep one parent away from another?

In this episode of the Modern Divorce Podcast Host Billie Tarascio, along with Modern Law contributor (and mom) Nancy Conrad, discuss in depth a unique custodial interference case from Arizona, where a teenage son, Blaze Thibaudeau, was abruptly taken out of state and into the wilderness by his mother.  The case was unusual because it involved a potential harm to the child due to the mother's belief in an impending apocalypse.

The father's lawyer successfully argued that the teen was in immediate and irreparable harm, leading to an arrest warrant and charges being filed. That allowed the FBI to step in and arrest the mother as she tried to enter Alaska through Canada.

This particular case is compared to two other outrageous custodial interference cases that Billie has worked on. For anyone concerned about their child's safety around the other parent, and worrying about whether their child will be "kidnapped" by family, this is a must-listen for what to do, when to do it, and how to make it happen.

Transcript

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We hope you enjoy this episode of the Modern Divorce Podcast

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And Hello and welcome to another episode of the Modern Divorce podcast.

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I'm your host Billy Tallahassee.

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I'm joined today by my wonderful mother, Nancy Conrad.

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And we are talking about a court case out of Arizona.

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Where a teen was taken

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and we've got all sorts of issues surrounding custodial interference,

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emergency family law orders and what to do

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if a child is taken out of state by another parent.

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Now, the facts of this case are crazy, Mom, you want to you want to fill in?

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Yeah. Okay.

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So this one caught my eye.

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It came up about two and a half weeks ago.

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And I remember I texted you about this. Like what?

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Because it just sounded so strange.

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But here's what happened.

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A mother and a father

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living in Arizona in Gilbert, which is where you live.

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They have a teenage son and the mom was increasingly getting involved

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with sort of thinking that there was going to be the end of the world.

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The end of the world is nigh.

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How many times has that happened through the ages?

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You know, many times.

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So many cults.

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And anyway, so this was a little strange.

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And the husband and wife were on the edge of getting a divorce.

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They had given it another go, apparently in October.

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But by the end of October, Mom got all the camping gear

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and took gear and took the teenage son with her to Idaho,

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but really

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didn't give the dad any other clues, just like I'm going.

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And the other weird thing that happened about this,

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and this is where I'd heard about it, was from her daughter,

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who is an adult and she's a young married woman.

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Her her husband, who is also young.

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He got on YouTube and recorded a long interview.

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You can find all of this stuff and said, “My wife left and she went with her mom. 

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And there they think the end of the world is coming.

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And she invited me to come.

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They had tickets for me to go to.

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It was, I think Boise or Idaho Falls and but I said, I can't.”

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I can't.

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And, you know, “I love you, but I can't do this.”

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So then what does the dad do?

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The that day or the very next day, Dad goes down to his attorney

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and he files for custodial interference.

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Sort of almost. Okay.

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So the mom thinks the end of the world is coming.

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They've got four kids.

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There's one minor children.

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Mom and dad are on the rocks.

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Mom takes the oldest or the youngest

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who's 16 or 17 and takes off.

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Dad tries to find them, can't find them.

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They're eventually located in Alaska.

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So what Dad did was he went and filed an emergency motion

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for temporary orders without notice in the family court,

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because you can't have a custodial interference

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unless you have a custody order that's been broken.

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And so when mom took the teen, there were no custody orders in place.

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And married parents can travel with their children wherever they would like.

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So she wasn't violating anything.

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She wasn't in violation of anything.

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He probably would be unable to get the police to even help him

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go find his child without some sort of crime.

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And crime only exists once they get a custody order in place.

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So the father's lawyer files a petition for dissolution and a motion

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for emergency temporary orders, and then an arrest warrant is issued.

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So you looked at the paperwork of this

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because it's it's public information has been in the newspaper.

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What was

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different about this from a garden variety

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mom goes to the next state and takes the kid with them when

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somebody's in the middle of a divorce, because that's very common.

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Very common happens all the time. Right.

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And not that is not usually worthy of an emergency order.

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So the lawyer in this case did a very good job of making the case

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that the teen was in danger of a media and irreparable harm.

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And he drew parallels

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to the Lori Vallow case. Hmm.

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Which is right.

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So which is a very interesting way to go.

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But he he did a great job saying this is not your garden variety case.

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He attached exhibits to the

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to his petition.

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And let me just read you a part of this motion.

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It says, Several years ago, mother started forming beliefs in the end of the world,

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scenarios eerily similar to the well-publicized Lori

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Vallow and Chad Daybell saga, which also took place between

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Gilbert and Idaho and which culminated in murdered children.

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Mother has since come to believe that she is the chosen prophetess,

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and the party's minor son is the Davidic Messenger,

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the one who has taken prophesied in her interpretation of Scripture.

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The group's belief in their super elite chosen status

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as messengers of the last days is particularly chilling.

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So that's just one paragraph of this motion

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which got the court's attention.

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Yeah. Wow. That's like flames all over that.

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That attorney really made it sound awful

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because, yeah, potentially the this young man could be in danger.

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And and apparently, you know, he's a good looking kid on the football team.

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And dad says he loves football and he didn't want to miss the next game.

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And this was out of character for him although I don't know if that ended up

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in any of the court docs that the the attorney put together.

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He did say, you know, the minor child has strongly resisted mother's beliefs

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and strongly feels mother's beliefs are the product of mental illness.

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Mothers beliefs of the child's divinely chosen status

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adds to the concerns.

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Yeah. So

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yeah and then she included

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or he, the lawyer included exhibits

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including letters from mom to the kids.

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Long, long letters.

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Questions for the Lord when she was going to meet the Lord.

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Oh, boy. Yeah.

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Including am I one of the witnesses

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who will prepare with, you know, son.

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Okay, so.

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That was enough to get the judge to say, yes.

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We think that there is certainly a risk of immediate and irreparable harm.

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It's certainly worthy of us figuring it out.

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Yeah, the family was eventually tracked down in Alaska.

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Do we even know how they got to Alaska?

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Well, they were on the border, the Canadian Alaska border,

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and it was probably a passport thing.

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So they probably already had, you know, thank God for modern technology

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and you get that information there.

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And yeah,

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but, you know, the other thing is, too, is that his older

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sister was with him and the mom's brother.

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Right. Was also there.

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So you have four peop well, maybe three people.

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And then the son who have bought into this doomsday thing

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and they're trying to prepare for when God calls them, and that's just weird.

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I'm sorry. I mean.

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It's weird. It's scary.

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I can only imagine how scary that was for this teen.

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And I, I feel pretty awful for him that he's been caught in this

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and that there's all this news about him.

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But there's an upside to and that is that he was found

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he's probably back home now and they have two charges outstanding

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apparently unless things have changed but two charges that were filed, right.

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Yes. For felony custodial interference.

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And custodial interference is interfering

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with a lawful court order or denying someone their parenting time.

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So once dad was able to get this order, it also came

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with an arrest warrant and she's now been charged.

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What's interesting is if she had no notice of the

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order.

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Yeah, because it happened after she left.

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I wonder if she can be charged.

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I wonder if she if that's not a defense.

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Because if there's no order in place,

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she didn't do anything illegal in taking her son.

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And if she didn't know about it, then she's not keeping the son away.

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So probably this gets pled way down or goes away would be my guess.

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But I don't know what the facts.

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And, you know, maybe that's the better thing to happen.

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You know, she she may be different and her beliefs

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and but she's not really criminal.

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It's just scary, especially in the context of the Lori Vallow case.

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We haven't even touched on what that was for anybody who doesn't know.

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Lori Vallow and her second husband, I don't know if it was second

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or third husband, Chad Daybell, I guess they were in Gilbert.

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Lori's first husband was murdered or shot or had, you know, and then their two

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children disappeared and were found in graves in Rexburg, Idaho,

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which provides no

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was the first place I ever had a job so well,

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not my first job, but my first job out of college, interestingly.

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So that's. Fun.

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There you go.

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So, you know, small town, but it's a it's a nice

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close knit town.

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And they've both been sentenced.

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So Lori was convicted of killing her two kids

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and perhaps her husband as well.

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It looks like the death

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penalty is on the table for Chad Daybell.

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So what's interesting when we say

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like, okay, what mom did wasn't criminal, you know,

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what's hard about this is that it's so potentially dangerous.

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Right?

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So parents leave with their kids all the time

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and you're allowed to do that.

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And sometimes it's incredibly dangerous and sometimes it's not.

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So that and that kind of gets to my next point is how do people there are

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there got to be a certain number of people that think,

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oh, I can't have my children around dad or my mom or vice versa.

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In this case, it's the mom that is going to be charged or has been charged.

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And, you know, lots of times it's a domestic violence situation

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or those are the charges,

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not so much the psychiatric thing or a religious doomsday thing. But

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how does one come up with like this one?

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You said they had attachments to the charges, you know, docu.

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It's that said, you know, look, judge, here's proof.

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So most people are going to need to have some kind of proof, won't they, for

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somebody danger or whether the child they think is in danger.

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Yes, it could be very hard.

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So the first thing that people need to know is if you don't have court orders,

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you need to file quickly because of the CCJ

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and which state has jurisdiction over the custody issue.

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So sometimes people will move or they'll say, hey, I'm going back

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to stay with my parents or whatever, and if they can make it six months, then

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jurisdiction will have moved from the home

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state of Arizona to the new state.

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And certainly if they're if they want to

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relocate permanently, their case is much better.

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If they've managed to do that.

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So if you are the one at home and your spouse has left

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with your children

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and maybe

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you haven't filed for divorce yet, maybe you think things are like

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we're working it out or they're on the rocks, or do we just see how it goes?

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You should file something.

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You really, really want.

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The family court involved.

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When you have any sort of

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worry about

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custodial interference, mental illness, domestic violence, you immediately

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have to go to the court now to get an emergency order is not easy.

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There is a case that I worked on

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many years ago where a young mom

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became part of this cult accidentally.

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She wasn't even young.

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By the time she was 19, she answered an ad to become a nanny

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and she ended up in a cult.

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And I remember that one.

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Oh yeah. It's been a lot of years.

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But she had to be picked up by her mother

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in the middle of the night with her baby, you know, and ran away out of state.

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And she was from Washington and she got a a a restraining order in the state

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that she went to because that doesn't have the same jurisdictional issues.

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So she got a restraining order, but we didn't have any evidence.

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We showed up.

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So he filed to bring this mom and baby back.

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We showed up in a temporary orders hearing

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and we were making some pretty crazy allegations.

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It's not a normal violation to say

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like this person was captured and held prisoner

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psychologically and through becoming part of a cult

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and you can't bring her back and you can't make the kid come back.

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And we didn't have any evidence.

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And so what happened?

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Did I luckily was able

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to convince this judge that

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there was real danger?

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And he I remember him like yelling at me and telling me to call it down.

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But like, I wasn't there was nothing.

00;14;53;25 - 00;14;58;15
So I had to really convey how dangerous the situation

00;14;58;15 - 00;15;02;17
was for this mom and this baby and how dangerous this dad was.

00;15;02;17 - 00;15;04;16
And then luckily, the court

00;15;04;16 - 00;15;07;20
appointed a court appointed advisor and a best interest attorney.

00;15;07;20 - 00;15;08;25
And then as the case went on

00;15;08;25 - 00;15;12;19
and we were able to find these other women and wives who had been

00;15;12;22 - 00;15;15;13
treated to similar situation, and we could do discovery,

00;15;15;13 - 00;15;17;20
we could prove our case, and eventually we proved our case.

00;15;17;20 - 00;15;20;05
And he never had parenting time with that child again.

00;15;20;05 - 00;15;22;05
But it wasn't easy.

00;15;22;05 - 00;15;27;23
And was this the this was a case where he the man was already married to somebody.

00;15;27;25 - 00;15;30;04
I don't know if he was legally married or not,

00;15;30;04 - 00;15;34;05
but there were like three wives in the house or three women in wife.

00;15;34;05 - 00;15;36;00
Like. Okay.

00;15;36;00 - 00;15;39;13
And they would have women that came in and out over the years.

00;15;39;16 - 00;15;43;06
And she had joined this because she was working for him.

00;15;43;08 - 00;15;44;27
She got hired as a nanny.

00;15;44;27 - 00;15;47;27
She got hired as a nanny to go down and work for him.

00;15;48;02 - 00;15;53;03
And, you know, went through the very predictable pattern

00;15;53;06 - 00;15;56;20
of love bombing by the entire family.

00;15;56;23 - 00;15;57;02
Yeah.

00;15;57;02 - 00;16;01;23
And, you know, she was a nice, sweet, naive girl and just got roped in.

00;16;01;23 - 00;16;03;26
And that's that's what happened.

00;16;03;26 - 00;16;04;26
That's so interesting.

00;16;04;26 - 00;16;07;23
So that's a good example of custodial interference.

00;16;07;23 - 00;16;11;23
And luckily, you were able to get now you have another interesting case

00;16;11;23 - 00;16;12;28
that took a lot of time,

00;16;12;28 - 00;16;17;06
the baby William case, where that was clearly custodial interference.

00;16;17;06 - 00;16;20;06
But that was it was really more like kidnaping.

00;16;20;08 - 00;16;20;28
Well, yeah.

00;16;20;28 - 00;16;24;16
So custodial interference is kidnaping by a parent.

00;16;24;18 - 00;16;25;04
Okay.

00;16;25;04 - 00;16;28;02
So if a parent kidnaps a child, the crime we're looking at

00;16;28;02 - 00;16;30;16
is most likely custodial interference because.

00;16;30;16 - 00;16;31;11
Yeah, kidnaping.

00;16;31;11 - 00;16;35;27
I think the definition of kidnaping probably involves the stranger.

00;16;36;00 - 00;16;36;16
But yeah,

00;16;36;16 - 00;16;40;08
so in the baby William case, the family Court became

00;16;40;14 - 00;16;44;21
an incredible tool in finding this child and bringing this child back.

00;16;44;21 - 00;16;50;10
And that is also what we see in this recent case with the tributaries.

00;16;50;18 - 00;16;54;06
The Family Court's order and the Family Court's involvement became

00;16;54;07 - 00;16;57;07
absolutely critical in finding the child and bringing the child back.

00;16;57;14 - 00;17;01;11
And so a baby Williams case, we had a court order.

00;17;01;11 - 00;17;03;26
We went through his entire divorce case.

00;17;03;26 - 00;17;06;17
We got him custody rights.

00;17;06;17 - 00;17;10;08
Finally, as part of his divorce, he went to go begin exercising

00;17;10;08 - 00;17;11;14
his parenting time.

00;17;11;14 - 00;17;14;22
And within days, mom was gone and her parents

00;17;14;22 - 00;17;18;05
were reporting that my client had killed her and the baby.

00;17;18;08 - 00;17;20;04
Yeah. And it pretty. Traumatic.

00;17;20;04 - 00;17;21;27
Really bad. Really bad.

00;17;21;27 - 00;17;25;05
And so because the baby was with and that was a baby

00;17;25;05 - 00;17;28;23
at the time the baby was with mom, we couldn't get an Amber Alert.

00;17;28;25 - 00;17;32;02
We couldn't get an arrest warrant.

00;17;32;04 - 00;17;35;05
We had to go to the family court and ask the family Court to issue

00;17;35;05 - 00;17;40;04
an arrest warrant for the baby and then worked with the FBI.

00;17;40;04 - 00;17;43;29
And it took it took a lot of discovery and a lot of work

00;17;43;29 - 00;17;48;13
within the family court in order to get the evidence, to find this baby.

00;17;48;13 - 00;17;52;04
And it took between

00;17;52;06 - 00;17;54;13
I think the baby was taken in June,

00;17;54;13 - 00;17;57;29
and we didn't find the baby until September.

00;17;58;02 - 00;17;58;14
Yeah.

00;17;58;14 - 00;18;02;20
Which is a horrendously long time to have a baby go missing.

00;18;02;20 - 00;18;05;00
Horrendous. It is.

00;18;05;00 - 00;18;08;21
And you really had to go and do a lot of work in finding out

00;18;08;24 - 00;18;13;10
who's lying and where is this baby hiding and then the police and FBI

00;18;13;10 - 00;18;15;12
at the same time. Right?

00;18;15;12 - 00;18;15;25
Yeah.

00;18;15;25 - 00;18;19;16
And there was really so, you know, when my client was a suspect.

00;18;19;16 - 00;18;24;08
So it's not like the police were cooperating with us and

00;18;24;10 - 00;18;28;14
we used depositions that we could get through the family court.

00;18;28;14 - 00;18;30;21
We used subpoenas that we could get to the family court.

00;18;30;21 - 00;18;33;21
We looked at everybody's records.

00;18;33;25 - 00;18;37;18
There was a Facebook group that became very,

00;18;37;18 - 00;18;40;20
very involved in helping put the pieces together.

00;18;40;20 - 00;18;46;05
And it was eventually it was the interest from the Facebook group.

00;18;46;05 - 00;18;52;19
It was the people on the ground that managed to turn a critical witness,

00;18;52;22 - 00;18;55;22
which led to my client finding his baby.

00;18;55;24 - 00;18;56;22
That is amazing.

00;18;56;22 - 00;19;00;02
And by the way, we have a podcast about this like three or four parts, but

00;19;00;04 - 00;19;03;24
just to have these citizen detectives and now

00;19;03;27 - 00;19;05;20
I think that may have had

00;19;05;20 - 00;19;10;26
I mean, to have this stuff go on YouTube right away with the dad in this case.

00;19;10;26 - 00;19;13;10
The two videos

00;19;13;10 - 00;19;15;03
I think helps a lot.

00;19;15;03 - 00;19;18;12
And luckily this was this was a good situation.

00;19;18;12 - 00;19;22;24
But in both cases of the Thibaudeas and also Baby William, there was proof.

00;19;22;27 - 00;19;26;06
I mean, you had to work to get the proof, but you you got it.

00;19;26;08 - 00;19;29;22
And so I think getting back to that situation again,

00;19;29;22 - 00;19;32;22
if somebody's concerned then about their child

00;19;32;23 - 00;19;36;20
being taken across state lines or maybe even out of the country,

00;19;36;22 - 00;19;41;01
that you have to have proof and you have to jump on it, get that attorney.

00;19;41;01 - 00;19;44;01
So the for the first case you talked about,

00;19;44;09 - 00;19;47;14
did were you already representing this person.

00;19;47;17 - 00;19;49;15
The the young woman.

00;19;49;15 - 00;19;51;25
So the young woman in the cult?

00;19;51;25 - 00;19;53;28
Yeah, no, her mother called me.

00;19;53;28 - 00;19;55;08
Her mother called me and was like,

00;19;55;08 - 00;19;59;02
I found you know, I've gotten my daughter out of this cult.

00;19;59;02 - 00;19;59;25
I've rescued her.

00;19;59;25 - 00;20;04;03
And those those are the types of calls where you're like, Oh.

00;20;04;06 - 00;20;05;21
Yeah,

00;20;05;23 - 00;20;06;11
yeah.

00;20;06;11 - 00;20;08;01
We hear a lot of things.

00;20;08;01 - 00;20;10;28
Yeah, right. You know? And so I wasn't sure.

00;20;10;28 - 00;20;14;05
But as I talked to this mom and as I then talks

00;20;14;05 - 00;20;17;06
to this client and, you know, it was real.

00;20;17;06 - 00;20;22;15
And so yeah, and that was, I mean, that was how the judge felt too, like

00;20;22;18 - 00;20;23;19
really Billie?

00;20;23;19 - 00;20;25;26
But, you know, yes, it was true.

00;20;25;26 - 00;20;29;12
And then in Baby William's case, my client had been

00;20;29;14 - 00;20;34;26
the victim of severe false accusations by this mom

00;20;34;29 - 00;20;39;09
for a good year, and which is why we fought so hard

00;20;39;09 - 00;20;42;28
to get him a really great divorce decree and get him that parenting time.

00;20;42;28 - 00;20;47;01
And she could not face the fact that she had lost

00;20;47;08 - 00;20;49;13
and that her lies were uncovered.

00;20;49;13 - 00;20;51;16
And she just dug in on the lies.

00;20;51;16 - 00;20;54;04
And the sad thing about that,

00;20;54;04 - 00;20;56;18
not for my client, but the reality of that situation

00;20;56;18 - 00;20;59;13
now is that mother's rights have been terminated.

00;20;59;13 - 00;21;01;26
My client has full custody.

00;21;01;26 - 00;21;04;21
His wife has adopted baby William.

00;21;04;21 - 00;21;07;18
Oh, see, I didn't even know that they had gone that far yet.

00;21;07;18 - 00;21;09;24
So that's that is kind of sad.

00;21;09;24 - 00;21;15;14
I mean, it really it's probably the best outcome

00;21;15;16 - 00;21;19;24
under the circumstances, but it shouldn't have to be that way.

00;21;19;26 - 00;21;24;20
You shouldn't be so dedicated to your false accusations

00;21;24;20 - 00;21;29;06
that you're willing to make choices that land you losing your child.

00;21;29;06 - 00;21;35;04
And that is a little bit about, you know, we probably see the same thing with

00;21;35;06 - 00;21;35;17
the Thibaudeas.

00;21;35;17 - 00;21;36;04
It is.

00;21;36;04 - 00;21;40;18
I mean, I know that that child is almost 18, so it's not quite as big of a deal.

00;21;40;20 - 00;21;43;24
But making

00;21;43;24 - 00;21;47;26
sort of extreme moves can have consequences.

00;21;47;26 - 00;21;50;00
And then on the opposite side, we've got,

00;21;50;00 - 00;21;53;22
you know, the client who escaped from the cult, who made extreme moves,

00;21;53;25 - 00;21;57;23
but they were justified and we proved it and it paid off.

00;21;57;25 - 00;21;58;22
Yeah.

00;21;58;22 - 00;22;02;00
Now, in the Thibaudeau case

00;22;02;02 - 00;22;05;02
that that young man is almost 18.

00;22;05;03 - 00;22;08;02
I mean, if he's 17, he's, you know, pretty.

00;22;08;02 - 00;22;12;04
And then this is not a question of custody or anything,

00;22;12;06 - 00;22;14;18
because that really didn't come up after 18, does it?

00;22;14;18 - 00;22;15;18
No, no.

00;22;15;18 - 00;22;19;19
And I would I would think these parties will get divorced.

00;22;19;22 - 00;22;23;15
Dad will probably end up as the custodial parent.

00;22;23;18 - 00;22;26;23
The child will probably, you know, spend time with mom.

00;22;26;26 - 00;22;29;19
But, you know, they're in the homestretch

00;22;29;21 - 00;22;30;10
versus the

00;22;30;10 - 00;22;33;10
other two cases we discussed where they were babies.

00;22;33;13 - 00;22;35;20
I kind of hope that you're right about the,

00;22;35;20 - 00;22;39;10
you know, maybe pleading down the charges because

00;22;39;12 - 00;22;43;25
it just it doesn't really serve anybody to, you know, have somebody have jail time

00;22;43;25 - 00;22;48;03
or or have a felony on their record if if things can be fixed.

00;22;48;05 - 00;22;51;27
And and luckily, FBI stepped in and,

00;22;51;29 - 00;22;55;02
you know, two weeks later wasn't even it wasn't even that long.

00;22;55;02 - 00;22;56;16
I think it took about a week.

00;22;56;16 - 00;23;01;21
So kudos to the, you know, the police and FBI and all that.

00;23;01;21 - 00;23;04;19
And now I have to say to

00;23;04;19 - 00;23;06;14
Gilbert has had its fair share

00;23;06;14 - 00;23;10;18
of some weirdness because the Lori Vallow case took place

00;23;10;18 - 00;23;15;19
in in Gilbert and also Idaho and then the baby William case.

00;23;15;19 - 00;23;17;23
Well, it wasn't I don't know if it touched on Gilbert.

00;23;17;23 - 00;23;19;25
One of the families may have lived in Gilbert for a while,

00;23;19;25 - 00;23;21;16
but it was mostly Mesa, wasn't it?

00;23;21;16 - 00;23;25;08
Or but still, you know, I just think that there's too much of it.

00;23;25;08 - 00;23;27;19
And we're not around here, so.

00;23;27;19 - 00;23;30;07
Well, you know, we're we're a large jurisdiction.

00;23;30;07 - 00;23;30;25
So there's.

00;23;30;25 - 00;23;33;23
Yeah, there's a lot going on for sure.

00;23;33;23 - 00;23;36;23
So just kind of to wrap up, what would be the takeaways

00;23;36;23 - 00;23;40;29
then for somebody who might be listening to this and thinking,

00;23;41;01 - 00;23;45;03
you know, I need to get my kid away from this other parent?

00;23;45;05 - 00;23;50;23
The best ways to do that are probably not to in unless there's danger going on.

00;23;50;23 - 00;23;53;22
Spirit the child out of the house in the middle of the night.

00;23;53;22 - 00;23;57;14
Please talk to a lawyer because like as we discussed

00;23;57;14 - 00;24;01;01
these three different scenarios, every single one of those cases

00;24;01;01 - 00;24;07;17
needed a different strategy that is incredibly specific to your facts.

00;24;07;20 - 00;24;11;03
And sometimes I'm the one advising the parents, Yeah,

00;24;11;04 - 00;24;14;13
you do want to get out of the state and you do want to stay out of state

00;24;14;13 - 00;24;16;27
as long as you possibly can without anybody filing anything.

00;24;16;27 - 00;24;22;07
So get advice because these are very tricky, tricky, tricky situations.

00;24;22;09 - 00;24;26;02
And then the other thing that I think is so cool

00;24;26;02 - 00;24;32;23
and worth really lifting up is like crowdsource first investigation

00;24;32;26 - 00;24;35;02
is really effective is

00;24;35;02 - 00;24;37;22
like, yeah, going online

00;24;37;22 - 00;24;42;24
and talking about your issue and getting help finding things

00;24;42;24 - 00;24;46;22
and information is really cool because people will get involved.

00;24;46;22 - 00;24;49;29
People want to be part of it, people will commit to it, they'll spend hours on it.

00;24;50;06 - 00;24;54;14
And the you just have more unlimited resources than the police do.

00;24;54;16 - 00;24;55;06
Exactly.

00;24;55;06 - 00;24;59;18
And, you know, not everybody's got a phone, right, with all of these lenses.

00;24;59;18 - 00;25;04;01
And people, especially in the baby William case, is so many people

00;25;04;01 - 00;25;08;20
turning in evidence or conversations or, you know, text messages.

00;25;08;21 - 00;25;11;23
And that stuff is just great evidence.

00;25;11;28 - 00;25;13;08
It is. It absolutely is.

00;25;13;08 - 00;25;16;12
Like eventually you get so close,

00;25;16;19 - 00;25;19;12
something gives so

00;25;19;12 - 00;25;20;17
true. Crime is pretty cool.

00;25;20;17 - 00;25;22;13
Podcasts are cool.

00;25;22;13 - 00;25;25;16
I'm really happy that this case was a happy ending,

00;25;25;16 - 00;25;27;18
but I know that there are families out there

00;25;27;18 - 00;25;31;16
who are dealing with these issues and trying to figure out like, what do I do?

00;25;31;18 - 00;25;33;23
What do I do?

00;25;33;26 - 00;25;36;23
And then when one of the last points I wanted to make too

00;25;36;23 - 00;25;40;22
is that, you know, you will you have people reach out to Modern Law

00;25;40;24 - 00;25;44;02
and say, you know, let's have a counselor sit down and talk.

00;25;44;04 - 00;25;48;01
But in these situations, they really it's hard for somebody

00;25;48;01 - 00;25;52;07
to wait until the last minute and call after something has happened.

00;25;52;13 - 00;25;53;22
You know, it should.

00;25;53;22 - 00;25;56;14
I know it's hard, but people do need to pick up the phone

00;25;56;14 - 00;25;58;20
and get in touch with their attorney, don't they?

00;25;58;20 - 00;26;02;27
Yes. So in the case with the Thibaudeaus,,

00;26;02;29 - 00;26;07;19
dad got lucky that he was able he had the facts

00;26;07;21 - 00;26;11;06
and the evidence and the exhibits to go get an emergency order.

00;26;11;08 - 00;26;16;09
But if you don't if you're more like, you know, the rest of

00;26;16;12 - 00;26;17;28
you know, the people out

00;26;17;28 - 00;26;22;00
here, there isn't some smoking gun and you don't want to wait.

00;26;22;00 - 00;26;23;13
You want to get a court order in place.

00;26;23;13 - 00;26;28;08
If you think there's a danger of your spouse taking your children anywhere,

00;26;28;12 - 00;26;30;09
get a court order because then

00;26;30;09 - 00;26;33;09
you have a preliminary injunction that immediately goes into place

00;26;33;09 - 00;26;37;05
that says nobody can take the kids out of state without

00;26;37;08 - 00;26;38;16
permission of both parents.

00;26;38;16 - 00;26;41;23
And then if that happens, you can get your warrant.

00;26;41;25 - 00;26;44;15
Because you can't just pick up the phone and call police and say,

00;26;44;15 - 00;26;46;25
my husband took my child and I don't know where he is.

00;26;46;25 - 00;26;49;09
You can't. Exactly. So heartbreaking.

00;26;49;09 - 00;26;52;21
That is so scary. Yeah, absolutely.

00;26;52;21 - 00;26;56;27
And, you know, the family court can move quickly or slowly.

00;26;56;29 - 00;27;00;14
Luckily, this dad was able to get that emergency order that same day.

00;27;00;14 - 00;27;01;29
But it just doesn't always work that way.

00;27;01;29 - 00;27;03;26
And any given judge, one judge might be like,

00;27;03;26 - 00;27;06;07
yes, this is an emergency and another judge might be like,

00;27;06;07 - 00;27;08;04
I'm going to set a hearing.

00;27;08;07 - 00;27;08;18
Yeah.

00;27;08;18 - 00;27;11;14
And that hearing is what, six or eight weeks down the road or something?

00;27;11;14 - 00;27;12;08
Probably not.

00;27;12;08 - 00;27;15;01
An emergency hearing should happen fairly soon.

00;27;15;01 - 00;27;16;25
But let's say it's weeks later.

00;27;16;25 - 00;27;17;17
You know, weeks

00;27;17;17 - 00;27;21;12
later is weeks where your child's gone and who knows what's happening.

00;27;21;14 - 00;27;22;08
Right.

00;27;22;08 - 00;27;24;28
That sounds awful. Awful, awful.

00;27;24;28 - 00;27;29;14
Well, also and before we go to we should mention when without law school,

00;27;29;14 - 00;27;31;14
for those people that are kind of on the fence

00;27;31;14 - 00;27;33;28
about things that maybe they don't have the money of this,

00;27;33;28 - 00;27;37;26
the ability they can go to him without lawsuit law school

00;27;37;26 - 00;27;42;21
dot com and learn how to do some of these filings

00;27;42;23 - 00;27;43;20
on their own.

00;27;43;20 - 00;27;47;29
Yeah one without law school is just a fantastic program.

00;27;47;29 - 00;27;50;04
If you are not in a position to get a lawyer

00;27;50;04 - 00;27;53;06
there is no better resource in the entire country

00;27;53;12 - 00;27;55;28
to help people who are representing themselves.

00;27;55;28 - 00;28;00;05
You get access to a close community, a lawyer

00;28;00;05 - 00;28;04;12
who does daily live calls and Q and that's amazing.

00;28;04;13 - 00;28;09;22
Yeah, it really is so much coaching, so much content, so many courses,

00;28;09;27 - 00;28;11;13
so many people rooting for you.

00;28;11;13 - 00;28;15;19
It's a wrap around coaching platform for people who are representing themselves.

00;28;15;19 - 00;28;16;27
It's very cool.

00;28;16;27 - 00;28;17;09
Yeah.

00;28;17;09 - 00;28;20;09
And that that is such a great idea because so often

00;28;20;09 - 00;28;21;10
when you're going through a divorce,

00;28;21;10 - 00;28;25;25
you feel kind of you're all alone and you maybe can't talk to a lot of people.

00;28;25;25 - 00;28;30;03
Your your sometimes your closest friends are friends with both,

00;28;30;06 - 00;28;31;20
you know, your spouse and you.

00;28;31;20 - 00;28;33;25
And it's just so awkward.

00;28;33;25 - 00;28;35;18
So awkward. Yeah.

00;28;35;18 - 00;28;39;11
Or you have 10,000 questions and it costs a ton of money

00;28;39;11 - 00;28;41;08
to talk to your lawyer about it every time.

00;28;41;08 - 00;28;44;03
So you join in with that law school, even if you have a lawyer,

00;28;44;03 - 00;28;48;01
because you can get a lot of information and then use your lawyer for things

00;28;48;01 - 00;28;49;17
like going to court

00;28;49;17 - 00;28;53;09
or, you know, you can just use your lawyer more strategically, right.

00;28;53;13 - 00;28;56;12
Like when these really messy situations come up.

00;28;56;12 - 00;28;57;23
Absolutely.

00;28;57;23 - 00;28;58;04
All right.

00;28;58;04 - 00;29;01;05
Thank you all for joining us today for this episode

00;29;01;05 - 00;29;04;00
of the Modern Divorce podcast, where we talk about custodial

00;29;04;00 - 00;29;08;23
interference, emergency orders, UCC GPA and lots of interesting cases.

00;29;09;00 - 00;29;11;05
Thank you for being here and joining me today.

00;29;11;05 - 00;29;13;23
If you've enjoyed this episode, make sure to like it, download it,

00;29;13;23 - 00;29;16;06
leave a review and let us know what other content

00;29;16;06 - 00;29;19;20
you'd like to see on the Modern Divorce podcast.

00;29;19;22 - 00;29;20;07
Thanks so

00;29;20;07 - 00;29;23;07
much for listening to the modern divorce podcast.

00;29;23;08 - 00;29;25;26
Remember anything you've heard today or anything.

00;29;25;26 - 00;29;29;23
You read online is not the replacement for actual consultation  

00;29;29;23 - 00;29;33;13
with an attorney and does not create an attorney client relationship.

00;29;33;16 - 00;29;35;20
Even if you called in and we spoke to you,

00;29;35;20 - 00;29;37;24
you are anonymous and we don't have your details

00;29;37;24 - 00;29;39;27
and have not become a client of modern law.

00;29;39;27 - 00;29;41;18
However, we would love to speak with you

00;29;41;18 - 00;29;45;01
or you should seek out the advice of legal counsel or counseling.

00;29;45;05 - 00;29;46;26
Or any. Other expert near you.

00;29;46;26 - 00;29;50;13
And if you have an idea for a show topic or you need to speak to an attorney

00;29;50;13 - 00;29;56;15
in Arizona, you can reach me at info@MyModernLaw.com.