If you've ever thought that you couldn't afford a divorce attorney, this podcast is a must-listen. Modern Divorce Podcast Host Billie Tarascio talks with mom, Amanda Mallon who got her divorce game plan from a pro bono day (free) visit with a Modern Law attorney, which Mallon then managed with free and reduced cost elements. Today, she has sole custody of her child.
The two also talk about an online app which keeps heated conversations between exes in line, with one stop shopping for scheduling, and a system for flagging nasty and unhelpful tone.
If you've ever thought that you couldn't afford a divorce attorney, this podcast is a must-listen. Modern Divorce Podcast Host Billie Tarascio talks with mom, Amanda Mallon who got her divorce game plan from a pro bono day (free) visit with a Modern Law attorney, which Mallon then managed with free and reduced cost elements. Today, she has sole custody of her child.
The two also talk about an online app which keeps heated conversations between exes in line, with one stop shopping for scheduling, and a system for flagging nasty and unhelpful tone.
Billie Tarascio: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Modern Divorce podcast. I hope everyone is doing well today. We've got a fun guest. We've got a mom who did not use Modern Law in the traditional sense, but took advantage of the resources, came up with a plan, represented herself and just finished your case and got her really, really great outcome that she is willing to share.
With you all. So I'm very, very excited for this episode. It's going to be a little different than the others. Amanda, welcome to the show.
Amanda Mallon: [00:01:00] Thank you so much. And thank you for having me.
Billie Tarascio: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for being willing to share your story. I think we are in a really interesting time where people are more likely to talk about what's worked for them and to kind of crowdsource self-representation because self-representation is not easy.
How long have you been doing it?
Amanda Mallon: I actually only just started last year with the initial portion for this round. I did try it again, or if the first time in 2016 was not very successful at it, but. This time around coming up with the game plan, the strategy and stuff like that, and definitely taking advantage of the pro bono day that Modern Law had was definitely beneficial this time around.
But I have to say it is extremely challenging. I have to give all the attorneys a lot of, a lot of kudos for how much effort and work that you guys put into it. And you guys don't just have one case you guys have many, I only had to deal with mine [00:02:00] and there was moments where I was like, oh my gosh, I just want to throw in the towel or pull my hair out and everything.
Cause it was, it was frustrating. But then there was moments of like, okay, I can do this. I got this, you know, And the roadmap that you gave was so helpful, so helpful at pointing me in the right direction.
Billie Tarascio: Good, good. Well, I do think the most important piece of any case is the strategy. Absolutely. So can you tell us what went wrong in 2016 when you first represented yourself?
What went wrong then was that I didn't really have the strategy I was going in more blind. I didn't understand the ARS statutes that were there or anything like that. But I didn't have a clear understanding of what was there or how to follow it, or basically that, that was the guidelines there for you to follow.
Right.
Amanda Mallon: So I just kind of like threw my case together and I was like, I can do this, you know, I have [00:03:00] everything here and it ended up not really being a very solid case because it wasn't strategized appropriately.
Billie Tarascio: Okay. And so was that an initial divorce that you went through in 2016?
Amanda Mallon: That is correct. Yes.
Billie Tarascio: Okay. And was the main disagreement custody?
Amanda Mallon: it was custody and parenting time.
Billie Tarascio: And did you end up with equal parenting time and joint legal decision making?
Amanda Mallon: so we ended up with Monday through Friday was my time and Friday to Monday morning was his time. And then it was 50 50 custody.
Billie Tarascio: Okay. And why didn't that work? And what did you need to change?
Amanda Mallon: So the reason I feel it didn't work was the constant opposition, you know, reaching out, trying so hard to be like, Hey, here's the situation? What can we work out? And everything, and constantly being met with, no, this is not how we're doing it.
We need to do it this way. And it's like, okay, [00:04:00] where's the middle ground? Where can we actually connect and come to a solid foundation for our child? Because ultimately the child is what what comes first, right. You know, they should be the top priority regardless of how parents feel about one another. And I think even that in itself is very challenging for many parents too, when there's anger, animosity, you know, upset or anything like that, because divorces is very tremendous.
It's very turmoil-y. So I think there was just a lot of that opposition, you know, when I would say, Hey, I think this is in our child's best interest. I was met with no I don't, I disagree.. Constantly the disagree. And I was like, okay, what can we do for this? And then I think the biggest issue was then when our child started pulling out their hair, you know, and then last year, like trying to do the medication will not last year, the previous year 2020, trying to do the medication and everything.
That's when it really became the biggest issue. The psychiatrist was one of them on the [00:05:00] medication to help them to develop those coping skills for our child. And. The other party really did not want that, you know, really put their foot down and our child wasn't getting better. They were getting worse because of that opposition.
Billie Tarascio: I think in cases where children have special needs or ongoing, you know, complex, complex parenting is required. Joint legal decision-making does not work unless both parties are on the same page. It just doesn't, it's too complex and that, and you have to make decisions all the time for your changing child.
So it's not like you can set it and forget it and fix it. So you've got, you know, it sounds like kiddos who are, who are complicated.
Amanda Mallon: Yes. So they're on the spectrum. And then they were also diagnosed with an anxiety disorder that anxiety, anxiety disorder did require the medication, everything, however, the other party, because of that [00:06:00] 50 50 blocked it.
Now every facility that you go to does not have, well, one parent just has to give permission the facility we were going to had to have both parents because we shared 50, 50 blocked that. Did not talk to the psychiatrist or anything like that to get the information that would've helped him with that decision and better understanding.
And I even held off doing the medication for almost a month, waiting for him to contact the psychiatrist, giving him that opportunity. And he did not do. So I just had to that's when the fight, you know, initially started with, okay, I have to do what's best for our child. I have to do what's needed for them.
And this is what's being medically recommended and told that we need.
Billie Tarascio: So the parenting plan was working for you all. You didn't need to change.
Amanda Mallon: Not necessarily actually there in the parenting plan itself. I know you there's that portion where it says transportation in there. The judge had written [00:07:00] handwritten, and so the officers kind of struggled with it because it was handwritten.
They had written that if there's no daycare or school exchange yet. Well on my holidays, mother's day, my birthday or Easter, he started refusing to bring her to me in like 2019. So I did have to start, you know, getting the police reports and stuff like that and doing custodial interference. So it did start becoming an issue.
He also would argue about when our parenting time actually started. So there was a window from seven to 7 45 for drop-off in the morning, which was for like traffic and stuff like that. Same thing, four to 5 45 traffic stuff like that for pickup. And he would argue that the receiving parent gets to decide when the actual drop-off is because he wanted it right at four o'clock and our child, the first year at the school that they were going to now was getting out at 3 55.
So I was like, Hey. Our child will be out at four 30. So this way I'm [00:08:00] not rushing them and causing upset and I would get messages. No, she needs to be out at four o'clock. She needs to be out and they're in uniform. So our, our child wants to come in and get changed before leaving. So I'm like, We need to do what are our child wants for their comfort and not rush them.
Billie Tarascio: Right. Right. Geez. Okay. He sounds difficult.
Amanda Mallon: You should see the messages I get.
Billie Tarascio: Oh man. Yeah.
Amanda Mallon: And that, that brings me actually to OFW. OFW has been a blessing since 2018. What he was doing is I have like two different emails and I would have my phone. He was sent a message in one email, then another one elsewhere, then a text and I'd get a phone call.
So it was very hard to keep track of where all the information was. So once we got OFW everything's right there. And if I got a text or anything else, I just screenshot [00:09:00] it and upload it to there, did the memorialization there and everything like that. And it just was so much more convenient. And then the tone meter was also great.
So when I would get what I perceived as an aggressive or upsetting email, that tone meter would confirm it, it would things specific wording and stuff like that as upsetting. Or humiliating and stuff like that. So I was like, oh, well now I'm validated. And how I'm feeling too crazy person taking it offensively, which is what he kept telling me too.
You're just crazy.
Billie Tarascio: Oh, that is, you know, this is the first time I've had this conversation and I've never personally used OFW, but it sounds really useful.
Amanda Mallon: It does. So how ours was laid out is that if we could communicate anything on the calendar, then we didn't have to send a message to one another. So I didn't have to send a message going, Hey, our daughter has this [00:10:00] date for this appointment.
You know, it was just curious on the calendar. There you go. There's the information, any school forms that came home, picture info bank. There you go. No message needed no back and forth,
Billie Tarascio: You just upload it. And then he gets a alert or something.
Amanda Mallon: If he sets up for the alerts. Now he was claiming that he wasn't receiving messages.
However, OFW has this wonderful thing that even if you delete the messages, it still stores it in the trash bin. It does not delete it at all ever. And you can see when the other person reads it. And everything at times and date stamps it. So if somebody is playing games, OFW use real, real useful. Oh yes.
Oh yes. Especially when they're not getting yet.
Billie Tarascio: The general parenting time during the week with you weekends with dad is fine. That's not the issue. The issue is all of the other things that require any sort of agreement or cooperation. [00:11:00]
Amanda Mallon: That was part of it. The other issue was that our child was coming home and reporting things.
So then there was a slew of trying to figure out what is going on. Or they were coming home angry with me, angry with my husband and lashing out at the other kids. So that's when I started having to go to the counselor and be like, Hey, here's the situation. I'm not sure what's going on. And then later on, my daughter revealed, well, dad says you did this.
Dad says you did that. And it was like, Gosh, I'm being alienated from my own child because they're coming home angry with me and and thinking I did these horrible things to their father. Yeah. So I had to work with the counselor as, okay, what can I say? What can I not say what's appropriate? And they were like, well, you can tell them if it's true or not true, but don't delve into like what it actually is and keep it as that's between the parents.
Those are parent issues. Those are adult matters. And that you're very [00:12:00] sorry that it was discussed with them. And it should not have been.
Billie Tarascio: Yeah, like helping to flag, to helping to flag for your kids. You know, you are not, you are not supposed to be hearing this. This is not your burden. You shouldn't be hearing this really, really helps them start filtering out.
Like, not my problem, not my problem, not my problem, but that's so hard. So how did you end up settling?
Amanda Mallon: I don't know what happened. I don't know if something happened on his, under what not, but suddenly out of nowhere, there was a discussion of settlement and I was like, okay, let's see what you've got. And we started with the, just the back and forth and everything I did later find out that he did have police come out to his house and that there's more DCS involvement.
Billie Tarascio: Why.
Amanda Mallon: I'm not a hundred percent sure. I'm still working on getting that report to figure out more information.
Billie Tarascio: Interesting. Okay. So [00:13:00] he said he wanted to settle and then did he end up giving you final legal decision making?
Amanda Mallon: I got sole custody. I got the whole thing.
Billie Tarascio: Full decision-making.
Amanda Mallon: Yes. And then he also said he doesn't want any parenting time at all.
And he's also put in there that the counselor will reach out to him. When they want to involve him or anything like that, or if there's anything that he needs to know. And he also put in there that he can send a letter to the counselor and the counselor it'll be at their discretion, whether or not our child gets the letter.
Billie Tarascio: Oh my gosh. She gave up all parenting type, basically.
Amanda Mallon: Yes. Everything.
Billie Tarascio: Wow. That's sad. It's pretty extreme. How old is your daughter?
Amanda Mallon: She's 12.
Billie Tarascio: Okay. And how is she doing with that?
Amanda Mallon: So I talked to the counselor as to how to proceed with informing them that they did not have to go back to dad's. We told them two weeks ago, [00:14:00] actually.
They were relieved that they did not have to go back because I started refusing to go to their dads last year in February.
Billie Tarascio: Was that mostly due to the alienation?
Amanda Mallon: No, it was also two reports of abuse.
Billie Tarascio: Okay.
Amanda Mallon: And we're still hearing things. They're still reporting to us. What's what's happened for them and everything like that.
And it was put down that there is trauma there by the counselors and stuff like that. So we're still trying to process that and figure out how to best help them and everything. But honestly, the mood has shifted. There are no longer on edge waiting for when dad's going to show up or anything like that.
They've been actually a little bit easier to get along with, for everyone in the household because that tension's not there.
Billie Tarascio: So they are 12. And how old is the other one?
Amanda Mallon: I have a son who's eight with my current husband and I have a soon to be six year old little girl. [00:15:00] Okay. Okay. So your daughter who's 12 was the only one who was, who you share with your ex.
Yes. We did have another child who we did share who unfortunately he passed away in 2012.
Billie Tarascio: Oh, I'm so sorry.
Amanda Mallon: It sucks, but yeah,
Billie Tarascio: so that's pretty incredible. W how do you think you managed to work all this out? It sounds like you had a team of advisors that you really use. Sounds like the counselor was very important.
Amanda Mallon: I had the counselor. I had a really good support network. My husband, my dad, my stepmother. They've all been just absolutely incredible with being supportive and helping guide me and stuff like that. There was times where I got messages from the other council. And I was just, I wanted to blow up. I was, I was just like, why, why are you doing this?
And why now? And you know, definitely having another person to be able to call and be like, Hey, I'm really angry with what I just received. [00:16:00] And helping them kind of process that motion with maybe like, okay, I understand how this can be upsetting. So let's take a step back. I made it a rule that if I was upset, I do not respond for at least 24 hours.
Billie Tarascio: Let's so smart. So smart. Oh, you want to write like 25 versions in your head before you send one?
Amanda Mallon: Well, I can't tell you how many times I would type up an email and then I would end up deleting it because it was, you did this, you did that. This is unacceptable.
Billie Tarascio: Right, right. Okay. So what are your tips out there for people who are trying to represent themselves?
They feel like they're an impossible situation. They feel like the courts never going to care. What are your tips?
Amanda Mallon: My tips are basically stick to the facts. Absolutely stick to the facts and you have to leave the emotions out. And I think that's the definitely the hardest part. And if you need counseling and everything like that, to help with that, definitely do the counseling because that's someone who's in your corner that you're able to call or [00:17:00] be able to talk to.
Whether it be like once a month, once a week, however often it needs to be to process things that are upsetting and everything. Definitely before you file anything, look up the laws. Hmm, definitely make the strategy and everything like that. If you're able to touch base with an attorney, then I would definitely do that.
Take advantage of either the pro bono days that you guys offer, which is wonderful. Or even anyone who has like those free hour, you know interactions and stuff like that. I did also actually do an hour with you guys. And I talked to Stephanie and she was wonderful as well. Like you have an amazing staff happy to,
Billie Tarascio: I do have a great team, and I'm really glad that they were able to assist you in.
Congratulations on this great outcome. Is there a path forward for him where he does get to spend time with your daughter or no?
Amanda Mallon: I don't know, I had tried to put in the settlement agreement for [00:18:00] reunification therapy or family therapy or anything along those lines and he took it out.
Billie Tarascio: Wow.
Amanda Mallon: So I don't know.
I wanted to give him that opportunity and everything like that to have that. I don't know what his game plan is or anything like that. I honestly, truly hope that, you know, he either gets some counseling himself or, you know, tries to better understand how his daughter feels and everything like that and why she feels that way and how he can maybe repair that, that relationship down the road.
Billie Tarascio: Did the court already sign off on your agreement?
Amanda Mallon: They said that they're going to change it from an agreement to an order.
Billie Tarascio: Okay.
Amanda Mallon: So once the child support and the child support enforcement or completed, it'll all be in an order.
Billie Tarascio: Wow. That's very, very, very, very interesting, good for you. If you all have enjoyed this episode, make sure to like it and make sure to leave a comment and a review for [00:19:00] Amanda and sending your questions.
If you find that you have further questions, Amanda, thank you so much for your time today and for sharing your story and for just walking us through what is such a personal thing really, really appreciate it. It was great to have you.
Amanda Mallon: Thank you for having me. I really, really enjoyed this.
Billie Tarascio: Oh, good. I enjoyed it too.
Have a great day. Bye. Take care.