You think getting is divorced is hard? We agree, but in England, if you're in the Royal Family, it's a Royal Pain. In this extra fun episode, host Billie Tarascio and Modern Law's Sarah Encarnacion sit with UK Solicitor and former Barrister Tracy Maloney, (yeah, we'll explain the difference) who spills on the Royal Family Divorces and how the British Monarchy finally got around to saying it's okay to divorce.
It only took a few hundred years to allow divorce, which is a way better than what became of Henry VIII's wives, but divorce nevertheless remains a trauma not only for the spouses, but sometimes whole countries as well. Just think Princess Diana, and Megan Markle, and you'll get the picture. You might just feel better about your own divorce after listening in!
You can find Tracey on her UK website at https://moloneyfamilylaw.co.uk/
You think getting is divorced is hard? We agree, but in England, if you're in the Royal Family, it's a Royal Pain. In this extra fun episode, host Billie Tarascio and Modern Law's Sarah Encarnacion sit with UK Solicitor and former Barrister Tracy Maloney, (yeah, we'll explain the difference) who spills on the Royal Family Divorces and how the British Monarchy finally got around to saying it's okay to divorce.
It only took a few hundred years to allow divorce, which is a way better than what became of Henry VIII's wives, but divorce nevertheless remains a trauma not only for the spouses, but sometimes whole countries as well. Just think Princess Diana, and Megan Markle, and you'll get the picture. You might just feel better about your own divorce after listening in!
You can find Tracey on her UK website at https://moloneyfamilylaw.co.uk/
Billie Tarascio: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the Modern Divorce podcast. We have got a very special episode coming up today that I am very excited about. And I'm joined by two lovely people today. Internally, we've got Sarah incarnation who is on our marketing team, and I'm so happy that you will get to meet her. And this topic was very near and dear to her heart.
And so we are talking today with solicitor Tracey Maloney. Who is an English solicitor. And the first thing we're [00:01:00] going to talk about, well, that I want to know is the difference between the solicitor and barrister. But we're going to talk about all things, English, divorce, law, monarchy, and just really explore this topic with our friend here, who is the queen of TikTok.
Tracey Maloney: So they say the “legal queen.”
Billie Tarascio: On Tik Tok, I am, uh, I can only aspire to be like you because I love to talk. It's so fun. It's my most fun platform. So welcome to the show.
Tracey Maloney: Thank you guys. And thank you so much for inviting me. It's an absolute honor to join you on here today.
Billie Tarascio: So give us a little bit about your background and your story.
Tracey Maloney: So I started life as a barrister, um, when I first qualified, um, and I did that for about five or six years. Um, and because you're in court all day and you're prepping for court the next day on the evening, it wasn't conducive to family life. So then when I got married and I have [00:02:00] my babies, I decided actually I'm going to make the transition over to being a solicitor, because then at least I would get some of my evenings and my weekends back, um, been practicing solely family law now for just over 20 years.
Um, has worked in all different environments, whether it be my own firm, corporate firms, or just on my own at home, which now I'm currently doing after lockdown. So plenty of experience, not just of the family law cycle itself, but also of the different corporate entities that we have here in the UK.
Billie Tarascio: Wonderful. So can you explain what is the difference between a solicitor and a barrister?
Tracey Maloney: Yeah. So typically a solicitor will stay in the office. We will have, you know, anywhere between sort of a hundred and 150 clients, and we are doing all the advising or the prep work for court or the paperwork. We will then hand that brief over to a barrister who then will do [00:03:00] all the advocacy.
Solicitors can do the advocacy, but because we're more office-based and the barristers are in court all day. Every day, they have the expertise. So it's, it's the same job that I believe you guys do over there, but only one person will do it in, in the U S I think, whereas over here, we kind of share that role, whereas is that right?
Billie, do you guys do both core and office you're doing, and
Billie Tarascio: that's very, very interesting. So there are lawyers who do not. Litigate and they're called transactional lawyers, but most of us who practiced family law do both do both the, the office work and the court work. So very, very interesting. And in some ways it must be more efficient.
Although I would think it would be hard to try a case in court if I didn't really know and understand if I hadn't done all that prep work. So I think it would be harder maybe under your system. [00:04:00]
Tracey Maloney: I would have to agree with you there because not only is it harder as a barrister, I think to pick up a brief, chances are the night before, but also you're very reliant on your solicitor to give a good brief, to actually get all the details down.
And if the solicitors , I think went to court more, it would probably serve the client better.
Billie Tarascio: Interesting. But you're not allowed.
Tracey Maloney: We are allowed. I think that a lot of, because we have the two professions, the solicitors don't get that much court training and court exposure almost from when you're a trainee solicitor, you're taught how to do a brief and a bundle to counsel.
So what you find is the solicitors coming through, lack the confidence to do the advocacy. They really don't want to dip their toe in there because they just haven't had the training or the exposure. That you, you definitely learned to do it a hundred percent.
Billie Tarascio: How [00:05:00] interesting.
And one of our topics today was going to be the difference between the American system and the British system.
So that's a huge difference. What else?
Tracey Maloney: Well, I don't know Billie. I was hoping you could help me out here because let's just take family law for a second. We have three different areas. If you like that run very distinct from each other. So let's take the typical divorce couple. Who then want to sort the finances out that has nothing to do with the child custody arrangements.
And am I right in thinking that in the U S it's all wrapped up together?
Billie Tarascio: Yes.
So what you're describing is what we would call a bifurcation and bifurcation sort of indicates two, but it really just means we're going to chop the case up and deal with one issue at a time. Now, certain states do it that way.
For instance, North Carolina, I know has a different [00:06:00] track sort of in court for spousal maintenance versus, you know, the child issues versus the property division. And so it sounds like that's how you do it in. Europe. Interesting. There's a lot of that makes a lot of sense to me.
Tracey Maloney: Yeah. Yeah. So it's all dealt very separately.
So we can't start the financial proceedings until there's a divorce petition on foot. However, we don't have to then do the finances as part of the divorce. You know, many people in the UK will simply go through the divorce process, get their decree absolute, and don't do the finances. And then maybe come back in five years time and say, we want to sort the finances out.
Yeah, it's bizarre. Isn't it? Whereas in the us it's that everything is being dealt with all at the same time, which actually I think is a good thing. I think that's a good thing because it gets messy. If you've been divorced five years, I had a, I had a client, [00:07:00] a new client come on today and she got her decree absolute in 2012.
And they still own a house together in joint names. They don't live together. He moved out years ago. Um, but she, now she rang, rings me to say, okay, trace, I've got the decree absolute, we had that 10 years ago, but now I want his name off the mortgage. And it's just, it's bizarre to me. Whereas I think you guys, that would never happen.
Would it in, in the U S.
Billie Tarascio: No, the divorce has definitely like, um, well, it should be the goal is for all of the uncoupling to be done all of the financials to be split. So I don't even understand how that would work. So like for instance, the retirement accounts, how do those get divided?
Tracey Maloney: Well, they're not that they're not divided, but the contributions that we were divvy up during the divorce stops at decree absolute.
So you lose the pension entitlement once the decree absolutely is pronounced, [00:08:00] but let's say you've been married for 20 years and you haven't gone through with the finances. You have to unpick and go back through those 20 years using perhaps a pension actuary to then decide how much of the pension part to lift.
So it can get really complicated.
Billie Tarascio: Interesting. I'm also interested to know how you all are treating the issue of spousal maintenance or alimony.
Tracey Maloney: So again, we have to have a divorce petition. It's really hard to get maintenance really hard. And the easiest way to explain it to you is we will have the clients complete an expenditure schedule.
And let's just say that then allows us to identify that they need perhaps 2000 pounds per month. And then that income is only [00:09:00] 1500 pounds per. The amount of spousal maintenance with claim would be the deficit. But the reason why I think it can be a little unfair is because spousal maintenance is based on your most basic needs.
So in that expenditure, you can only put down living costs, you know, your gas, your electric, your fuel, your insurance, there's no allowance really for any of the luxuries that you may have experienced during the marriage. So I D I think that's a little of thing. If I'm honest, it's quite harsh.
Billie Tarascio: Okay. All right.
And then his property divided equally all the time.
Tracey Maloney: No, absolutely not. So if you are the person that has the children, you will get more. Perhaps if you are older, you will get more. So sometimes there's no children, but you'll get more that way. If you have medical conditions, if you earn less than your spouse, you may get more of the [00:10:00] equity in the property.
So there's about seven or eight factors that we will look at that will justify. Us moving away from 50 50, that's easier to get actually than spousal maintenance. That's a lot easier. Yeah.
Billie Tarascio: So I'm not sure in your, in the UK, if that's, if that's the case, like, is it state by state or is it a, a law of the country?
Tracey Maloney: So we have one law for England and Wales. Wow. England and Wales. That's it. It's a different jurisdiction in Scotland. So I can practice all over England, all over Wales that the law is exactly the same, but Scotland and Northern Ireland are by jurisdiction and they have their own legal governance.
Billie Tarascio: Very very interesting. Um, one last question on the differences between our systems and then I'll let Sarah dive into the fun and juicy stuff. Do you all have a presumption [00:11:00] of joint custody and equal parenting time?
Tracey Maloney: So we attend to in the language that we use, our child orders are now called shared care, but when a massive comes before the court, it's very much dependent upon the status quo.
So what has the routine been up to. And, you know, in particularly the British culture, the children do tend to stay with mom. You know, it's more of a traditionalist approach here. So typically mum will get the kids and therefore by default, we'll get a larger slice of the matrimonial asset for do you know what I mean? So it's definitely not assumed because 50 50 just, it's not unheard of.
It's just rare. Ultimately the child has to live in one house we're not big on having the kids, you know, with mom one day and dad, the next day or week on week off the [00:12:00] courts, don't like that. Unsettled approach for children. They like it to be a little bit more consistent and just status quo.
Billie Tarascio: Okay. Um, and so the parent that does not live with the children, how often do they usually see the children?
Tracey Maloney: So if we take a typical case where the children live with mom, dad's probably going to get alternate weekends, Friday after school, dropping them back to school on Monday. And on the week that dad doesn't see the kids, maybe a Wednesday for tea.
Billie Tarascio: Got it. Okay.
Very very interesting. Very, very interesting. And now, Sarah, do you want to take over and ask about
all of the juicy stuff?
Sarah Encarnacion: Yes. I
would love to, um, Tracey, as a, as expressed to you, we're so excited to have you on the podcast, um, to be able to talk about. Um, as you mentioned earlier, and as Billie mentioned earlier, I really love this topic of the British monarchy.
I always have. [00:13:00] Um, ever since I was a little girl, I know a lot of Americans kind of shared the same feeling, um, of the Royal family and whatnot, working for a family law and divorce firm has kind of been able, or kind of let me look at the Royal family in a different light, um, in a good way, but just in terms of, um, how divorce works and.
And how it's influenced a lot of things, especially in society. So, I kind of want to start with something that I think a lot of people don't know about and they should, which is how queen Elizabeth the second, um, what, what's the proper way that we should refer to her, actually
Tracey Maloney: the queen,
Sarah Encarnacion: the queen.
Okay. We just want to make sure. So, how queen Elizabeth, the second ascended.
the
Tracey Maloney: so, um, originally we had a gentleman called king Edward that sat on the throne and he was king. He was king and he ruled England and he met an [00:14:00] American lady who was twice divorced. Mrs. Simpson Wallis Simpson. And because of that, he fell in love with her and wants to marry her. And of course it was not accepted.
You could not then marry anybody that had been divorced, let alone twice. I mean, it was...
Billie Tarascio: the scandal.
Tracey Maloney: And the reason for that is that because our Monarch is heads of state. So then our church of England and the church of England back then did not believe in divorce at all. So it would be, um, huge conflict for the Monarch who is our sovereign to then marry somebody who had been divorced.
So he had to abdicate and it was his choice and the English people were distraught, but he decided that for way from the throne. And having already been made king. It was huge. I mean, obviously I wasn't around [00:15:00] then, but it was absolutely huge because he had to hand the crown over. And not only did he have to hand the crown over, but he had to leave the UK.
He was not allowed to remain here. So the crime then went to his younger brother, George. Who was a really shy man, very, very shy man. And for those of you that have read a little bit about our Royal history, he had a really bad stutter, a really, you know, so he's public speaking. Wasn't great. But the crown fell to him.
Um, and he took it on board. He was already married at that time and had two little girls, one called Elizabeth and one called Margaret. So as a consequence of Edward falling in love with Wallace Simpson, we now have our queen today cause she was George's eldest daughter.
Billie Tarascio: Wow.
Tracey Maloney: Elizabeth's mother. So our queen Mary who's passed away now. Um, hated Edward for that. Absolutely hated him for that [00:16:00] because obviously it plays not only her husband. With all that pressure of being the Monarch and he had no training for that, you know, Edward would have received all of the training for that.
Similarly is similar at similar rates can get a website similar to Charles. Who has had all the training above Andrew and Edward now. Do you see what the main, so George wouldn't know, not obviously the, the rules of states, but he wasn't raised to be king. So his wife was very annoyed at that and more so, because then she knew her daughter was going to take over Sovereign. So that was a lot of pressure on, on her daughter, Elizabeth, and it was difficult for the sisters, you know, as, as you may have seen through the Crown, that's when it is, but then became queen. It was very hard for her and Margaret because they, they weren't expecting to land that role.
Sarah Encarnacion: Definitely. And one thing I think is so interesting is how young [00:17:00] queen Elizabeth or the queen was when she, when she sended the, the crown. She was, I think, 26 years old. Um, cause her, her father, he passed away pretty young. Um,
Tracey Maloney: He was 52, I think was a died from lung cancer, unfortunately. Um, so she came to the throne really young.
Um, I think if I'm right, she did only have two children. Then she had Charles and Anne. Um, she didn't have the other two at that point. Um, yes, she was 26. Um, so she's been on our throne for, we celebrate her Jubilee this year. Yeah, lots of parties and street parties on the 4th of June. Ah,
Sarah Encarnacion: I'd love to be there.
Um, one thing I, I, uh, you mentioned was her sister, princess, Margaret too. Also a lot of people don't know is just an icon herself. She was beautiful. She was fun. She was, um, the Queen's best friend. I mean, they had an amazing relationship from what I know. And [00:18:00] princess Margaret's, uh, her first love or her, the person she, she wanted to marry.
Um, this person, from what I recall, they were not allowed to be together because this person was a divorcee himself and queen Elizabeth, the queen had to. She had the final call from what I recall, if they were allowed to be married, she had to make that decision. So this is the second time in her life.
That divorce has affected her in a huge way without her being the one getting divorced. Huh? Yup.
Tracey Maloney: It would have been so hard for her because at a time when, when all that was happening, his name was captain Peter Townsend. Um, and Margaret did fall deeply in love with him. And he again he was divorced from his wife.
So, you know, right from the offset, it was taboo, but the queen had three hats. She had her hats as a sister and desperately wanted Margaret to be happy. Then she had her hat as the Monarch, but the most [00:19:00] important hat in that decision was as Soverign and head of the church of England. And she couldn't go against the law that said any of the Royal family, particular or family could not marry a divorced.
It just wasn't allowed. The queen actually found a loophole for Margaret. In that she could have married him, but not under the affiliation of the church of England. And at the time Margaret felt very let down. And prior to that, she had told Margaret, if you wait till 25, We will be able to find a loophole here.
And they sent because so often times and was part of the military and they sent him away for a long time. So Margaret endured that and waited and waited, and she turned 25 and, and Townsend came back and they wanted to get married. And that's when the queen [00:20:00] said to her. Absolutely. You can. But not under the church of England and Margaret felt so let down.
And I think the strain of it, or Margaret loved and adored and supported her sister. And I think when it came down to it, she was also willing to give up the love of her life for the Monarchy. She did that for the monarchy, but it was heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking because then Margaret went onto marry Lord Snowden, very tumultuous marriage, very dysfunctional, very aggressive, and ultimately ended in divorced.
Billie Tarascio: Wow.
Sarah Encarnacion: Which is, I believe I heard was the first divorce in the Royal family and the British Royal family and a couple of centuries. So it was a huge deal.
Tracey Maloney: They are a huge deal. Margaret kind of got away with it in a way because Margaret was beautiful. charismatic. She was our party queen. You know, she was all the things that we almost wanted [00:21:00] our queen to be, but our queen couldn't cause she had her place.
So Margaret was almost that release and you know, it kind of expected like Margaret getting a divorce, of course, you know, from then Margaret was seen with younger man and she was all like, uh, she liked to drink and you know, so, but you're right, Sarah, it was, it was our first divorce.
Sarah Encarnacion: And then after that there's been a whole series of Royal divorces and three of them, which were the Queen's children themselves.
Tracey Maloney: Yeah, absolutely. So Anne was the first to then get divorced, um, followed by Andrew and in the same year, Charles and Diana. So they all crapped on with divorce then. Sure.
Sarah Encarnacion: Let's talk about our beloved, um, princess Diana. Uh, at least in American culture, she, I can speak on, she is she's an icon to us. I mean, I, I remember being so young and like [00:22:00] having my mom cut the hair off my Barbie dolls because I wanted them to be like princess di.
And I was, maybe it was like three. When she, when she passed away, I was so young. And I remember that was the first time that I like how to you was like familiar with the concept of death. I mean, It was just so moving. Um, so princess Diana, a lot of people, I don't think know that she did struggle with mental health before, during, after the
divorce
Tracey Maloney: Absolutely. She did. Um, you know, and, and I think that's what makes Diana the queen of all our hearts, because, you know, we, there's not many people that you will speak to in England that don't hold utmost sympathy for Diana and what she had to go through. She was 19, she was 19 and Charles was 31. I mean the age gap was, was fairly large.
He was clearly in love with Camilla. Always had. Always had been. [00:23:00] Um, but she, at the time was married. She wasn't divorced then, but she was married. Um, and Diana was, you know, the queen was getting impatient, maybe not the queen, but the system, you know, the system behind our monarchy was getting impatient because this was our future king and he was no 31 and had a reputation of being a Playboy.
Let's be honest. He was a Playboy. Um, so yeah, it was a very fast marriage. She was given no real training. There was no, um, support for her. You know, you'll be aware from all the documentaries. I'm sure that you you've watched Sarah that when the engagement was announced , she literally couldn't get into her car and, and move, you know, leave her flattened Kensington because she'd be surrounded by press constantly.
Um,
Billie Tarascio: the question, how was she chosen? How did this unlikely match end up
together?
Tracey Maloney: So Charles had actually gone out with her sister, Sarah, [00:24:00] and they will, it's like a polo ring that society. So he had just been seen talking to Diana. Diana was then invited for some dinners. Um, and there was a little bit of matchmaking behind the scenes and she was sort of selected.
Shall we say, as a suitor? He was very young. We are told that she was a Virgin. She hadn't had a boyfriend. And was the perfect, um, you know, match for our king to then be the mother of our future heirs, um, you know, Kings and Queens. Um, but yes, she did. She suffered terribly, um, with mental health and for years had an eating disorder.
And I don't think any of that was recognized that the Royal family of especially the older generation, I think the younger generation are much better at. So, you know, William's generation now, Zara, his cousin, they're all much more open about what goes on, [00:25:00] but back then it was very much, you know, a stiff upper lip.
That's the British way. So Diana, the fact that you can't keep your food down, get on with it, you know, it wasn't recognized back then she had bulemia that wasn't a thing. And it definitely was. Thing in the Royal household, it was all about image and protocol and tradition steeped in tradition that is slacking off slightly, which is a good thing.
Um, but yeah, she, she really was almost thrown to the lions, really, bless her.
Sarah Encarnacion: And what I think is so fascinating is that once, once they divorce and from my understanding, it was actually, um, it was prince Charles who, who initiated the divorce. He, he. That was prince Charles, right? The Royal family.
Tracey Maloney: He petitioned for divorce.
Yeah.
Sarah Encarnacion: What a turn. I mean, it was only a few decades before that, that people were abdicating because they, the love of their life was a divorcee. So that's [00:26:00] a huge shift in society back then. Um, but it seems like she just thrived after the divorce. I mean, she. It seems like she just became the best version of herself and it was always within.
But the power and the confidence and the self security. I think that she had an all while maintaining and just being an exceptional mother and she always put the boys first. And I think that's something that maybe was seen as a weakness. Um, the controversy when she wanted to bring, you know, Prince William on one of the Commonwealth tours and everyone was mad about that.
Um, what can we learn from, from late princess Diana, about going through the struggle.
Tracey Maloney: And I think what, what possibly compounded that is that they had a legal separation first. And when they were officially divorced, they stripped her of all her HRH. So she was no. That's a curtsy in front of Diana anymore.
She was no longer [00:27:00] HIH and all that went with that. And the British public were very confused about that because here was this amazing lady who was the mother of our future king. We didn't have to curtsy to her, but we did to her son that really messed with our head. And, and all of a sudden there was, but, but I think to answer your question, Sarah, in the light of adversity, she, shone, she almost, you know, said to the world, it doesn't matter what you, what you do to me.
It doesn't matter how you treat me. Actually, I am a strong, powerful. Individual. And I am still the future king and the air and air and a spare, as they say, I'm still their mom, I'm still their mom. And as you say, she went on to just be a power, an absolute force to be reckoned with. Um, and it was, it was just such a shame in the end that it all just came, you know, to such a crushing demise.
It's just such [00:28:00] a, an ugly way, you know?
Sarah Encarnacion: Sure.
And then, uh, with, with Camilla, as you mentioned, a lot of people don't know that she's been around this whole time. She didn't come around. When princess Diana passed away, she was there from the beginning.
Tracey Maloney: The whole time when they were engaged, when they were courting, when they were married, were on their honeymoon the whole time she was there, he reached, he would wear cufflinks that Camilla gave him as a wedding present.
They would have late night phone calls, um, that he has a place not far from me, actually was about 20 minutes up the road in Highgrove. Um, and that, that is his home. Um, and he would spend the weeks in Buckinham Palace or in and around London, that Clarence house, or what have you. And then he, he is, um, in high growth, most of the weekends and Diana and the boys wouldn't call it the weekend.
They were told not to come at the week. Because Camilla would be there. Camilla is kind of 20 minute, or she was then in Laycock, which is sort of about half an hour south of [00:29:00] me. And then, so they were quite close. They were probably a 45 minute drive from each other. So when she divorced, she kept the house in Laycock and then she would go and spend the weekends with him.
And we know this because of various. Royal members of the household have sent it's told us that absolutely chameleon Camilla was a regular face at Highgrove when they, he was married to Diana.
Sure. And they ended up getting married. So prince Charles and Camilla, they did get married in 2005, which amazing again, huge shift because she was a divorcee.
What happened?
Well, had a change in our law in 2002. And I think because we were now onto, I think divorce number five. So we'd had Margaret first. We'd had Anne, then we'd had Andrew. Then we'd had Charles, it was recognized that [00:30:00] actually divorce isn't seen as a failure. I have to try and let go of the stigma and the best way to do that is for the Royal family to be allowed to divorce .
So the law was changed that whilst the church of England still don't believe in divorce, if you are unfortunate enough to be divorced, then we will allow you to remarry. But only once you, if that, if you've been divorced twice, But you only get one shot at this.
Wow. Nope. Camilla to then get divorced. And of course, subsequently Harry and Megan, because she is also a divorcee.
Sarah Encarnacion: Yeah. Can we talk about Harry and Megan real quick? I know they're not divorced, but. As you mentioned, um, Megan, is a divorcee? A,
Tracey Maloney: Um, she, she isn't really liked here in the, in the UK.
She has, she's very [00:31:00] unpopular. Harry was always our little prince, you know, and he was three, you know, our hearts went out to both of the boys, but particularly Harry, when his mother passed away. He does an awful lot, um, with, um, Olympians and especially Paralympians he's, he's really supportive of the underdog.
Harry. You know, he, he's just great. And all of a sudden this lady came in and quite quickly took him away and he's now turned his back on. All things British. Really. There was a ceremony on Tuesday of this week for the Queen's late husband. Um, and Harry refused to come back for that. And that's this granddad and we, we are struggling really to believe that that's Harry.
We are laying the blame squarely on Megan's rightly or wrongly. We're blaming
Sarah Encarnacion: Interesting. I don't really know what we think as, um, as an American society. You [00:32:00] think everyone's kind of half and half. Um, what are, what are, you know, what are your thoughts?
Billie Tarascio: Well, I I have to say I'm not, I don't read up on this all the time, but my impression as somebody who's not super invested in this particular subject, forgive me for saying that, um, would be that Megan's very popular.
Beautiful loved charismatic. Um, she sort of has the. Reputation of being a victim of her family and of Royal bullying. That's that's what I know. Is that correct?
Sarah Encarnacion: I would say that's pretty accurate.
Tracey Maloney: That's yeah. So that's totally the opposite view. I think that the UK people have of her over here, um, I think we would, we would definitely not, um, class her as being a victim of bullying.
Uh, family. I mean, what, what you being fair to you? And that's the thing, isn't it, it's all separated. And of course the, that we get here is [00:33:00] probably completely different than newsfeed that you get. Harry has kind of turned his back on the UK and he doesn't really think to do with us anymore.
And that kind of hurts particularly with William. William's going to need his brother here for support. Um, and you know, Harry just doesn't, he's made it very clear. He doesn't want to be a part of that anymore.
Billie Tarascio: Yeah, it definitely shows us how important PR is, how important messaging is, because what we're talking about is humans who are having human feelings and human relationships, and they're complicated. And all of this is true, you know, it's true that. You know, it's true that the English people feel betrayed because their prince has gone.
And it's probably true that he feels like his wife was rejected by you people. No, it's just, humanity is complicated. As we, as divorce lawyers know perhaps better than anyone.
Tracey Maloney: Absolutely Billie. I think you're absolutely spot on there. [00:34:00] Um, and, and as much as we love our queen, I think that it would, I think Kate and William will be a breath of fresh air.
I think they're going to be more open. They're going to be more, um, exposed. Shall we say, that's their promise that they're not going to keep that tight lip, you know, the queer you'll never hear the queen make a comment. The queen doesn't have a view. And the thing. Um, but I think Kate and William are going to change all of that.
And I think we will learn to embrace the Monarchy, even more perhaps, and maybe welcome some, um, mediation. Shall we say reconciliation might be on the cards, which would be nice. That would be, yeah. It wouldn't be nice.
Billie Tarascio: We have just a few minutes left. So I've got a couple questions about how these laws are made and changed.
So I've, I heard, I've heard that we've got the church of England. That is the [00:35:00] law, but there must be some other law and, and it governs the entire country. So can you explain to me how that works?
Tracey Maloney: So the church of England will have its own set of rules. If you're talking about marriage and divorce. Billie.
Billie Tarascio: Yeah, yeah. Let's yes. Let's concentrate on that.
Tracey Maloney: Yeah. So essentially it will be parliament that make. Um, our legal framework. So parliament will decide on the governance. The church of England will then have complete power over recognition. For example, when you say the vows, you know, till death, us do part.
You know, what we want you to to appreciate is that this marriage is going to be for life and that you won't be entering into a divorce. The fact that, you know, you're over 18, if you want to get married in the church. So it's not so much the laws that we as lawyers would then look at upon [00:36:00] divorce. It's more the governance within the church system itself as.
You have to have a witness there. For example, these are all rules made by the church, but the actual legal side of things that's definitely sits with the government a hundred percent.
Billie Tarascio: All right. So that's the same. As, as in the United States, many people have religious ceremonies or belong to a religion that has certain views about divorce, and then you either have to go live there in almonds or you're kicked out or whatever.
Um, but that is so separate from the way that the law is carried out. In the United States and it sounds like that's, that's true for England as well.
Tracey Maloney: Absolutely. And I think it's just, it's a lot easier here because the church of England is obviously all over England and mean obviously, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't happen in Scotland.
Um, you know, because they had a different set of rules up there. So our queen isn't head of the Scottish church only the English church. And I think it's [00:37:00] probably easier for us here. We don't have our, I don't believe as much diversity as you guys in the U S so I would have thought that in the U S you have a lot more scope for various religious marriages and therefore different rules, whereas in the UK, just by pure definition of the number of people here, I don't think we have as many.
Billie Tarascio: Sure. I mean, it's true. So we've got so many people with so many religions who all have their own, religious beliefs, but it has no impact on the way the law is carried
out.
Tracey Maloney: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, and that's fair to say here.
Billie Tarascio: Well, it has just been a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us today from all across the world.
Tracey Maloney: I really enjoyed it, guys. Thank you so much.
Billie Tarascio: And so what's your tik Tok handle before we end today?
Tracey Maloney: Oh, the legal queen. Yeah, the Legal Queen.
Billie Tarascio: Fantastic.
I will see you on Tik [00:38:00] TOK for sure. And if people want to get ahold of you, is there a website that they can find you at?
Tracey Maloney: Yeah, so it's just, I'm Tracey at Maloney family law.
So there we go. It's Maloney family. Um, if they want to get hold to me here, the UK.
Billie Tarascio: Wonderful. If you have enjoyed this podcast, I would ask you to please make sure to rate the podcast, leave a comment for Tracey and as always let us know if you have any questions or any specific topics you would like us to cover.
It has truly been a pleasure, Tracey, have a wonderful day.
Tracey Maloney: Okay, bye.